Newsgroups: alt.suicide.methods,alt.suicide.holiday,talk.euthanasia Subject: A Practical Guide to Suicide Summary: How to go about terminating your life. Keywords: coe, suicide, guide, reference, practical References: http://www.satanservice.org/ Replaces: 1.03 From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (boboroshi/CoE) Reply-To: boboroshi@satanservice.org (boboroshi/CoE) Organization: Church of Euthanasia (coe@netcom.com) Archive-name: suicide/guide Last-modified: 2000/02/08 Version: 1.04 Posting-Frequency: as needed WORK-IN-PROGRESS/WORK-IN-PROGRESS/WORK-IN-PROGRESS/WORK-IN-PROGRESS CONTACT THE EDITOR FOR LATEST VERSION PLEASE [SEND COPIES OF YOUR POSTS TO THE EDITOR FOR CONSIDERATION] Location: http://www.satanservice.org/coe/suicide/guide/ --------------------------------------------------------- CONTENTS ======== A PRACTICAL GUIDE TO SUICIDE I. Preparations A. CONTEMPLATING DEATH B. IMAGINING THE POST-MORTEM WORLD C. CONSIDERING THE SYMBOLISM OF DEATH AND SUICIDE D. LYING SUCCESSFULLY E. RESOLVING LIFE PROBLEMS F. LETTING OTHERS ASSIST II. Choosing a Method or Combination of Methods A. INGESTION/INJECTION/INHALATION 1. Poisons a. Antifreeze b. Cyanide 2. Depressants a. Alcohol b. Barbiturates c. Heroin and other Controlled Substances 3. Inhaling Carbon Monoxide (CO) B. ASPHYXIATION/SUFFOCATION 1. Constricting Circulation a. Leather Strap b. Rope c. Wire 2. Oxygen Displacement a. Ether b. Nitrogen/Helium (Inert Gasses) c. Carbon Dioxide/Suffocation (CO2) d. Nitrous Oxide (N2O) e. Water/Drowning (H2O) C. DAMAGE (Physical Methods) 1. Decapitation a. Guillotine b. Hanging 2. Cervical Dislocation (Neck Dislocation/Breakage) a. Hanging (Neck Break) 3. Electrocution 4. Hypothermia a. Snow b. Water 5. Immolation 6. Exsanguination/Bloodloss a. Major Arteries/Veins b. Wrists 7. Weapons a. Explosives b. Guns i. Shotgun ii. Death-By-Police D. IMPACT 1. Devices a. Crushing Machines 2. Weights 3. Heights (Falling) a. Bridges b. Buildings c. Planes 4. Vehicles a. Trains b. Trucks E. COMBINATION 1. impact/decapn (piano wire jump) 2. poison/asphyx (pills and bag) 3. poison/asphyx/hypotherm (alcohol/ leaky boat in cold water) F. MYTHS 1. air vein-injection (??) 2. body paint (Goldfinger) 3. pencils jammed up nose (highschool) 4. sucking out brain (through eyes, etc.) 5. head in oven (gasphyxiation) ================================================================= 0.0 A PRACTICAL GUIDE TO SUICIDE To: lemminglounge From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (SOD of CoE) Subject: Suicide is Easy Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 12:13:48 -0700 (PDT) there are sure-fire plans to kill yourself, but they don't always factor in the character and feelings of the person carrying them out. this is why I have put some emphasis on contemplation and reflection in the Practical Guide to Suicide that I'm compiling: I think it is very important that the person hirself is taken into consideration, because any 'sure-fire' plan can be disrupted by fear, uncertainty, or just plain self-deception. we need to devise scenarios for the typical experiences people are having when they are suicidal, like those who: * are sick and dying anyway and want an easy way out that doesn't involve a lot of mobility * are depressed and can't find the motivation to go great distances (as to procure barbiturates like the phenobarbitol recommended in "Final Exit") * are disgusted with life and want a way out that isn't too painful, messy or likely to fail * want to die for any reason and are afraid of being discovered, seen as a coward, or judged as evil by those she loves and is obsessed with * want to go out in a blaze of glory, making a strong statement against all hir enemies * want revenge on some society, group or person, and want to use their suicide as a means of achieving this * want to become an enigma or a media sensation, challenging the boundaries of narcissus I think that elaborate plans could be constructed for all of these conditions and desires, but certain combinations may be quite difficult to achieve (such as one who is depressed and lacking in energy and yet wants to go out in a way that would take some work). The Empowerment of Accepting Death we can be caught between knowing that we want to die and taking steps to accomplish it and really just wanting life to be different and trying to find some way to escape or hide from it. attempting suicide can be a way of shuffling the deck. no matter how much we may decry the control exercised over us once we've failed an attempt, we are the ones who got us there. it is a means of changing the life we are leading (abandoning control, which a lot of us want to do but for which are afraid of the repercussions). this is in part why some people commit crimes -- to return to a controlled environment where they can not have to face the stress of decision-making. knowing that we can at any point terminate our lives can be a powerful incentive. ok, now I can do anything. if the heat gets too much, I can push 'eject, game over' and I don't have to worry about the conditions I've created for myself. to many this is considered 'weak, avoidance, cheating, sinful, etc.', but that is just a human judgment intent on keeping us as their pawns, playing by *their* rules, condemned by *their* bogey gods, afraid to take the Final Power into their own hands and projecting this onto us as some sort of cosmic sin. after all, if they have to suffer in the shit- hole we're making of the world, we should be required to suffer it too, right? they'll say that we're a 'sore-loser' or a 'spoiled-sport' (their game was ruined) if we don't remain inside their pitiful, finite game (cf. Carse, Watts) and submit to our position. they are condemned to Hell in a life they deserve, and my power to end my own life is like a Secret Weapon. remember those spy movies and stories? there's always the 'cyanide pill' if we're captured or enter into a situation which may compromise our values and goals. if we condition ourselves to ingest it (something that these stories NEVER talk about, but the spies have to endure it to break anti-suicidal conditioning), that is, to terminate our lives, then we are better equipped to attain anything we want or die after feeling that our efforts were thwarted. it is arguable that this is of the strengths of Asian martial codes such as bushido which focus so intently on the death of the participant. if we're *really* creative we may rig up a type of death which serves to accomplish something long in our wake (like Jesus or Socrates did). I. Preparations when one is dedicated to the task, suicide will not be difficult to achieve at all. the major problem is internal, not external. some degree of self-analysis, preparation for death, the reaction one will not witness but apparently cause, etc., is important since we are conditioned to regulate our behavior based on imagining the reaction others will feel in response to our choices. Other than deciding on the method of self-termination, the practical preparation for suicide includes accepting one's demise, how it will be effected, and one's role in the social world prior to that event. Deciding (or leaving undecided) the metaphysical issues inherent to the notion of suicide (such as how the cosmos may be structured, whether there are moral authorities who have forbidden the taking of your life, what happens to people when they die, whether it matters if someone has killed themselves as to the quality of any post-mortem experiences, etc.) is an important part of accepting the idea of effecting one's own death. Contemplating the likely responses to the type of suicide one has planned and the future development of the society in which one lives (i.e. how family and friends will react to the news of your choice to end your life, what, if any, repercussions, there may be to the message your death may symbolize, etc.) is essential in the construction of a satisfactory suicide method and context. Discerning one's social role prior to suicide is immensely helpful in the precise delineation of the pre-termination itinerary. Whether this may include lying to one's friends and family (so as to avoid being bereft of autonomy and freedom in a misguided attempt to provide 'help'), the resolution of administrative details (like arranging for payment of regular bills and any funerary expenses that will likely be incurred by your survivors, etc.), or a fierce and fiery 'Shooting Star' termination in which a huge mess is left to those whom you despise or have learned to disregard, knowing how to approach the world will put those destined for death one step ahead of those who may wish to see that a self-termination fails. A. CONTEMPLATING DEATH (the experience itself, what we imagine or fantasize will happen at the time of death, what we would like to have happen, what we have been taught will happen and how we feel about that, how we feel about the encounter with the unknown that death will be) fear of pain is an important reason to hesitate when contemplating self-termination. we don't want to become paincenters, we want to terminate the pain we may be feeling (often psychological). the Surity Factor of practical methods is an important part of their consideration (which is why I include so much detail in the posts below evaluating methods, probably obvious to any who have seriously considered suicide before). but what is it about pain that we fear? to some extent this fear is entirely groundless and irrational. are we sure we don't want to feel ANY pain at all, even for a moment when the grenade we've placed next to our head goes off? flying through the air on the way to the ground we don't want to imagine the impact at high speed and the very short stimulus of every one of our nerves? driving onward with our heads flying backwards after being lopped off by piano wire attached to the axle of a parked truck or the trunk of a large tree, we don't want to feel the 'awkwardness' of seeing the world suddenly go topsy-turvy, feeling an imaginary body and wondering where 'we' are now? this is why experimenting with pain-play and getting over a dread fear of it can be valuable. we begin to understand that it is a *temporary* response to intense change (whether this be the change of decaying and dying as we age or due to some, possibly desired 'catastrophe'). eventually it stops being the obstacle it was and we can decide on suicide with a clear will. ---------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: stop-picking@that.rightnow (just another onionhead) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 02:36:58 GMT ...the thing that kept me from doing it was not that I wanted to live but that I was just too fucking scared of dying. And it wasn't _being_ dead that frightened me, it was the _dying_ part. The Trip form Here to There. It makes me shiver right now, thinking about that night. I'm just a coward, basically - this makes me wish I were dead, but at the same time it keeps me alive. Same old stuff. :( Maybe it was the method I chose that made it so difficult for me (hanging can be pretty gruesome if you don't do it right), but I can see where it might be the same with a shotgun. I suppose that when your conscious mind is aware that you're about to hit the Full Stop button, it's gonna fight pretty goddamn hard to keep you from doing so. The actual reasons are probably different for each individual.... >I have often thought that the reason people commit >suicide is that they care too much about what >other people think. Actually, that's one of the things that _keeps_ me from doing it. ---------------------------------------------------- To: kissass (CoE Forum) From: boboroshi/CoE (boboroshi@satanservice.org) Date: 11/24/98 ...most of us don't have the first inkling about what death includes, what it will be like, and a great number of humans hope to mystically circumvent this extinction-phase of our lives (termination). so we become members of cults which dream about afterlives and pretend that we're never going to die. the culture in which I live [US:CA] is pro-youth and ANTI-DEATH. I prefer to learn from works of art like "Logan's Run" (though I don't like the fact that the society is dominated and death is not OPTIONAL prior to degeneration) or "Zardoz" (which, while a low-budget cult film, has wonderful things to say about how fucked up people can get when we try to avoid natural processes and instead try to avoid the beauty of death and its results). ---------------------------------------------------- To: private email list From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (boboroshi/CoE) Date: 1998/01/31 # As significant as the fact that the means are easy and # painless is the fact that there is no stigma or shame # attached to suicide, since it is accepted (generally # speaking, even if someone would not want to lose a # particular individual to suicide). this is an important premise to get across. yet more than this should be the consideration of how death could be made PLEASURABLE! what if death could be the ultimate experience a human being could engage? pay a few thousand dollars and suddenly a whole circus of possibility opens up. death during sex, at the height of euphoria; death while engaging all the nastiest (or alluring), most forbidden (or desired) pleasures of the world. if there is no future which may be ruined, why not engage that which would otherwise harm or destroy us simultaneously? all the most exciting things which we'd avoid due to their risk and deleterious future repercussions would become options. ---------------------------------------------------- recommended by a friend: cf. the book "Cause of Death", which evaluates the exact processes of death without faux sensationalism. ---------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.methods From: "hmd1" Subject: Re: How to overcome the fear of death? Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 23:45:32 GMT Joseph T. Adams : > How does one go about overcoming, or at least > temporarily "tuning out," the natural fear of > death, of the afterlife, etc.? i don't have a good answer but here are some ideas that worked for me 1.drugs, at least some of them 2.wait till you can't handle the pain of being alive anymore and i'm sure you won't be asking yourself such questions 3.some music 4.making yourself deeply depressed It took me several months to push me over the edge (i.e. to feel like 2.) by using 1, 3, and 4. I also isolated myself more or less completely from the outside world so i would have noone to think about when i was to do it. At some point i started thinking in circles and it wasn't long before i wasn't scared anymore about death itself. I didn't succeed in killing myself but at least now i'm not afraid to die anymore. This won't help getting rid of the fear of the afterlife but since i don't have such a problem i can't help there. ---------------------------------------------------- Reading about suicide and methods can in fact make one become acclimatized to the rationality and realism of self-termination. Here are some book recommendations: "Suicide and Attempted Suicide: Methods and Consequences" by Geo Stone, 1999 To: alt.suicide.methods From: Subject: Re: Suicide with gas, Geo Stones book Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:09:40 -0500 Frank wrote ... > > ...I strongly support Stones book, since > > there is a desperate need for more and better > > suicide-manuals. I just wonder why he couldnt > > have developed a few methods to the very detail? > > I would specifically have liked to see a > > detailed oxygen displacement method, since the > > components for such a method should be available > > to most people. "A Guide To Self-Deliverance" EXIT (Britain) "Autodeliverance" Michel L Landa "The Bell Jar" Sylvia Plath "Bitter Fame" (bio about) Sylvia Plath (author is) Anne Stevenson "Caring for the Suicidal" John Eldrid "Death of a Man" Lael Wertenberger "Double Exit" Ann Wickett "Dying With Dignity", 1992, Derek Humphry (dhumphry@efn.org) "Essays in Self-Destruction" (ed) Edwin S Shneidman "Final Exit", 1991, Derek Humphry (dhumphry@efn.org) "The Final Months: a Study of the Lives of 134 Persons who Committed Suicide" Eli Robins "First You Cry" Betty Rollin "How To Die With Dignity" George B Mair, EXIT (Scottish) "Jean's Way" Derek Humphry "Justifiable Euthanasia" Pieter V Admiraal "Last Wish" Betty Rollin "Let Me Die Before I Wake", Derek Humphry "Letters Home" (bio about) Sylvia Plath (author is) Aurelia S Plath "Mishima: A Biography" John Nathan "The Oxford Book of Death" D J Enright "Prescription Medicide: the Goodness of Planned Death", 1991, Jack Kevorkian "The Savage God: A Study of Suicide" A Alvarez "Suicide and Attempted Suicide" Erwin Stengel "Suicide: A Study in Sociology" Emile Durkheim "Suicide: Inside and Out" David K Reynolds, Normal L Farberow "Suicide: The Gamble with Death" Gene & David Lester "Voluntary Euthanasia: A Comprehensive Bibliography" G Johnson (Hemlock) "Wanting to Die" Anne Sexton "The Woman Said Yes" Jessamyn West an article from "The Humanist" magazine "Death With Dignity", by William McCord; January-Febrary, 1993. ---------------------------------------------------- Songs about suicide can also get you in the mood: To: alt.suicide.holiday From: Suspicious Data Subject: Re: Good Suicide Song? Date: Tue, 23 Sep 97 04:30:01 PDT > > "Something I can never have", Nine Inch Nails ... > > There is also another great suicide song ... > from Marylin Manson , the last song on > Antichrist Superstar. > > The Cure has a lot of great suicidal songs. Doors "yes the river knows" is another fine tune. ---------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: Daniel Kosucu Subject: Re: Good Suicide Song? Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:43:13 +0100 Stay together by a British band called Suede is an excellent song. The lyrics are about what the title suggests and is about two lovers forming a suicide pact. ---------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: timmygato@aol.com (TimmyGato) Subject: Re: Good Suicide Song? Date: 25 Sep 1997 16:24:35 GMT >> > ...alice in chains has lots of >> > suicidal favourites, especially on Dirt. Especially Dirt on Dirt.... ---------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: melf@cubenet.de (Andrew) Subject: re: good suicide song? Date: 25 Sep 97 22:42:18 1-800-Suicide by Gravediggaz or Hey Man Nice Shot from Filter aren't bad either. Both are on the soundtrack to Demon Knight. ---------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: Suspicious Data Subject: Re: Good Suicide Song? Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 18:41:33 PDT > Morrissey, Bauhaus, Coil, Peter Murphy, > Sisters of Mercy, Lords of Acid (If you feel > like dancing first), Mistlethrush, Black > Tape for a Blue Girl... Morrissey is ok, I like "lifeguard sleeping, girl drowning" but sisters of mercy suck. ---------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: Jul Subject: Re: Good Suicide Song? Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 00:35:27 +0800 Kristy wrote: > Suicidal Tendencies: How Will I Laugh Tomorrow > (When I Can't Even Smile Today) Suicidal Failure > Feel Like Shit (Deja Vu) > > Pink Floyd: The Postwar Dream > The Final Cut > Comfortably Numb > > > > > > ...put the song on re-peat so when they find > > > you, they'll hear it. Sorta like an audio suicide note. > > > My suggestion is Gloomy Sunday (Sarah McLachlan's cover > > > version) > > Suicidal Tendencies: Suicide's an Alternative > Life of Agony: River Runs Red > > I heard thatthere is a symphony by Mahler that > is never played, because people get the urge to > commit suicide after hearing it. > Serious! Well, I've got one suggestion - The track called "Burn" by The Cure in the Crow soundtrack.. ---------------------------------------------------- And so can films: To: alt.suicide.holiday From: carol Subject: Re: Top 10 suicidial movies/novels of all time ? Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 16:23:59 +0200 i know only one book really dealing with suicide and not the english title (translated it would be "matildas last summer"). but "steppenwolf" (h. hesse) and "werther" (goethe) have left a big impression. carol ---------------------------------------------------- [call_me_dan's movielist:] Movies about Suicide -------------------- 10 Whose Life is it Anyway? 10 'Night, Mother 10 Leaving Las Vegas 9 The New Age (largely involving suicide and life sucky-ness) 6 Julian Po Harold and Maude Movies with Suicidal Characters ------------------------------- 10 Lethal Weapon 6 Groundhog Day Movies with Suicides -------------------- 10 Full Metal Jacket 8 Shawshank Redemption 8 Thelma and Louise 7 Gattaca The Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 Dr. Strangelove Vanishing Point The Crow My Name is Joe Honorable Mention ----------------- 8 Dead Poets Society The Deer Hunters The Madwoman of Chaillot Swing Kids A Few Good Men The English Patient IMDb search results ------------------- After Darkness Bad Timing Brave Breakfast of Champions (summary sounds pretty good) Chattahoochee The Crude Oasis God's Lonely Man The Odd Job On Campus Pact (summary sounds like an ash party ;) 3 Pump Up the Volume Zina [/call_me_dan's movielist] ---------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: cbreck@elknet.net (Carol) Subject: Re: Top 10 suicidial movies/novels of all time ? Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 09:05:51 -0600 One of my favorites is a dark comedy suicide flick..The End, with Burt Reynolds and Dom Delouise. It's hysterical! I particularlly enjoy the part where Burt swallows a handful of every kind of pill from his Mom's medicine chest, with sour milk. He immediatly spews out the mess on a coffee table and remarks, "Looks like Walt Disney threw up." ---------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: Lady Midnight Subject: Re: Top 10 suicidial movies/novels of all time ? Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 01:44:22 GMT oh yes, and not to forget *the* classic: Goethe's 'sufferings of young werther' (after this book was published -- in the 16 hundreds i think, but i could be wrong -- there was a slew of copycat suicides, where dozens of young men killed themselves with a copy of 'werther' in their pockets) and for movies: 'thelma and louise' ---------------------------------------------------- B. IMAGINING THE POST-MORTEM WORLD (what things will be like after we have died, what changes our family and friends will make, how our death will affect them and how they will transform because of our action, how our suicide might be seen and whether it will be understood for what it is or if it will be misinterpreted somehow (e.g. as 'mental illness') To: lemminglounge From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (boboroshi/CoE) Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 12:13:48 -0700 (PDT) postmortem fantasies (judgement by the god, for example) are implants designed to prevent our being out of the control of the cultic group. there is no evidence for their reality. they have observable affects on human behavior (largely irrational), and can be countered by effective hypnotic techniques or a sufficiently long focus on counter-images or counter-indoctrinatory concepts. suddenly 'becoming' an atheist or materialist- scientist, studying the popular expressions of this culture, the Skeptics, or their like, can have tremendously liberating repercussions. we may even find that, unloading all this shit from a repressive religious regime, we are now equipped to face life for a few more years (hopefully in service to nonhuman species or at least to ourselves) without all that Guilt Crap. also worthwhile is the intentional fantasizing of alternatives to the Nightmare Condemnation urged by these fanatics. I have, for example, imagined myself as being carried away by the shades as in the film 'Ghost' but without all the Orphic, Judeochristian horror, lofted on their shoulders in joy and revelry, a Child of the Darkness, carried down into the Wombful Underworld as Prince of the Daemons, crowned and conquering, a Hero for Terra. this has tremendously liberative counterbalances against the idiocy of the Bogey and His Punishment that the Western Book-Slaves have created in the minds of impressionable and perpetuated as a meme into the heart of existential angst. while I still don't believe in all this postmortem fantasizing, being a good Buddhic Satanist, I do find that, having some other comparable fantasy material allows me to categorize it all more easily than accepting some sort of Pascal Rap about how much better the choice is that I must make FOR the Yosemite Sam God than opting (like Bugs Bunny, my hero) AGAINST this phantasm. I might just as well accept that I must make a choice FOR the God of Toasters or of Lemmings (here I come, ready or not, oh God of Lemming Suicides! Yippee!!). ---------------------------------------------------- To: private email list From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (boboroshi/CoE) Date: 49980131 [obstacles to suicide] ...The desire to go on living this would include attachment to loved ones, activities, places and/or entertainments which we would (presumably, some people have very weird ideas like about 'the afterlife') not wish to depart. I think lovers, children, sex and wilderness are the most common attachments that keep people from ending their lives. lovers will become increasingly difficult to obtain in an era of continued compartmentalization and disease-fear. children will eventually be restricted to those with licenses. and the wilderness will, unless we take steps to bring these liberties into reality sooner than later, mostly be inaccessible or completely obliterated. absent these factors I think life will become drab and, outside the fantasy of media entertainment and the advertizers who will control those that view it, meaningless enough to inspire a great deal more to end their lives. those with the capital will of course attempt to terraform other planets and recreate the relative Eden we have had until quite recently. ... # people would accept suicide very casually. There # would be TV commercials for franchised assisted suicide # center chains. (The MacDonald's of suicide.) (And # then there are these fringe "anti-suicide cults"...) but what about the sensualist-death cults? you see, that is what I, in my queer CoE involvement, want to see more of: consensual human sacrifice, necrophilia, bestiality, cannibalism, perhaps COMBINING all of these things in a religious ritual (could even be Christian). ---------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: hermotimus > > More likely: I'll check in to a motel, when I decide to > > check out. Let the motel staff and the police take care > > of finding the body, cleanup, etc., and just notify my > > family. > > The only drawback to that is that I think a > > suicide in a semi-public place like a motel is more > > likely to result in a newspaper story, which might be > > embarrassing to the family. > So why not go for a motel faaaar away? I did plan on going at least into the next county, 40-50 miles away, so it probably wouldn't make the local news. If I'm really adamant about keeping out of the headlines, I guess I ought to plan on doing it on August 18, the day after Clinton gives his blow-by-blow account of his blows. ---------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.methods From: "canaria" Subject: Re: Please critique my method Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:52:34 GMT great plan. killing yourself in foreign country is the same plan which I have now. and..if u die in foreign country without any thing which can prove yourself..like passport..etc.. they'll be very confused which country u from or who u are..even if they find u. and why don't u find someone near u who can send your already written letter to your dad periodically. and that'll be no harm to your dad. ---------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.methods From: sbarrymurf@aol.com (Sbarrymurf) Subject: Re: Disappearing without trace Date: 30 Dec 1999 20:24:39 GMT let me out wrote: > I've come to the conclusion that I could disappear > without leaving any trace other than a note like > "Don't look for me anymore. I'm gone forever The best way to disappear is to go to a faraway city, preferably in the Third World. If you're in the U.S. go to Mexico. No passport needed. Make sure to leave no paper trail. Don't make airline reservations. Just take a train to El Paso or San Diego, then cross the border on foot to Juarez or Tijuana. Throw out any I.D. you have on you. Kill yourself, the authorities won't know who the hell you are, or even what country you're from. I suppose if it's a border town they'll assume you're American. No problem, go to Mexico City. You could be from anywhere. They'll declare you a John Doe (or a Juan Doe, more accurately.), bury you in an unmarked grave, and that's all. Then your shmuck relatives can ponder your disappearance forever. ---------------------------------------------------- C. Considering the symbolism of death and suicide (how what we are fantasizing might factor into something we want on a deeper level than a literal interpretation, like a "death of the self", "death to the world", "death and rebirth", and how these might be spiritual experiences) ---------------------------------------------------- D. Lying successfully (what to say and how to say it so as to resolve emotions with people we know and love but still keep them in the dark about what we are planning to do without giving our intentions away) To: private email From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (boboroshi/CoE) RE whether people will know we intend suicide: if you have attempted it before, they may suspect something is 'wrong' due to the sudden change in your attitude. doctors and/or media may have given them lists of 'signs to look for that indicate impending suicide', like a sudden resolve, openness, desire to let go of past issues with family, giving away one's possessions, etc. read the Encouraging Suicide FAQ if you want to see a thorough list -- at the following URL: http://www.satanservice.org/coe/suicide/faq.encouraging it is as important to us to know what will tip people off if we are intending suicide (or looking for people to pact-suicide with) as it is for those who want to thwart our wills once we have decided that death is the choice we desire. ---------------------------------------------------- E. Resolving life problems (notes, relationships, debts, discontinuing services, body disposal) To: lemminglounge email list From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (boboroshi/CoE) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:39:02 -0800 (PST) #># In MY opinion, a *good* Note should include the following: #># - why someone took the bus [i.e. killed themselves] ...I agree that, if someone actually thinks that they know why they ended their life (usually to terminate physical and/or psychic pain/depression), then it may be important to include this in a suicide note, agreed. #># - why one did not tell them before # The second question *they* ask is: WHY did he/she not tell # us before ? So, tell them ! alright, I can see that this *might* be valuable, as long as one feels a need to conceal one's activities (rather than to responsibly end one's life by terminating/resolving all relationships). again, it really depends on why one is killing oneself. if this is done to escape pain, then the objection ought be raised: why didn't you take steps to ameliorate that pain through the ingestion of drugs or the subjection to psychotherapy to 'fix the problem'? if it is done in order to reduce the human impact upon a beleaguered planet, then there is no need to wait until death to explain the importance of suicide or why one might engage it. euthanasia (whether assisted or undertaken by an individual) ought to be the birthright of all informed adults. #># - what other solution one has tryed before the final one #> #> unnecessary, but possibly helpful to others. # # And [it] shows... that it was an informed decision. not necessarily, since there are always objections to terminating life based on the held-out hope that there may be a 'cure someday'. this is contrary to the notion that a person ought to have the right to terminate their life whenever they want in a dignified manner and with assistance from the latest technologies. #># - why this was the best solution/[decision] superfluous excepting compassion. if one is intending to end one's life for reasons which do not involve other people or one wishes to strike back at those who were unkind to one in life, then either refraining from any kind of suicide note or writing something very hostile will have an entirely different effect upon the reader(s). if one decides to end one's life, this should be sufficient for those who respect who and what we are and our ability to make decisions about that which it is only our business to decide (whether we live or die; notable exceptions for dependents, but these can be provided arrangements in a will). # My 6 points for a *good* note are inspirations # for a note to reduce the pain of loved ones. this may or may NOT be a desired activity.... # Other motivations need other points. revenge, martyrdom, catalyst of species consciousness. suicide notes can be written for a variety of reasons, only part of which includes a clear communication of where we are and what we're up to. they can also be made into a political expressions, final stabs of revenge from the grave at our enemies, a puzzle for those with way too many calories, etc., etc. ---------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: L.B. Noire Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:58:02 -0500 >How To Write a Note - FAQ >I plan to write the FAQ on *How To Write a Note* how about a standard a.s.h note? something along the lines of: dear: [ ] mother [ ] father [ ] lover [ ] all of the above i have done this you see before you because: [ ] you suck [ ] the world sucks [ ] my life sucks [ ] my job sucks [ ] my vacuum sucks [ ] all of the above there was nothing you could do to stop me because: [ ] i had already made up my mind [ ] i have been suffering all my life [ ] i already threw away the receipt for the shotgun [ ] you were too slow to do anything about it etc. ---------------------------------------------------- To: kissass@hollyfeld.org (KissAss! CoE Elist) From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (boboroshi/CoE) suicide notes don't create problems. the problems are endemic to the society itself and its sickness about death. however, taking into account the idiocy and what ramifications may come from certain spins on suicide notes can be quite important (vengeance from the grave, for example, or giving your family a break for being normals). many people take notes as communications rather than last words in reflection of what one knows one is leaving (like a review of a film one has just seen), or rather than poetry (unless obviously so, which I think would be a perfect type of suicide note). if we can't say these things to people when alive, is this part of the reason that we feel so suicidal? if so, then we deserve to say them as we launch ourselves into the Realm of Death. here's my suggestion: I, _______________, being of sound mind and body, will kill myself in service to the organism who bore me. my sacrifice will relieve a little of the suffering and tragedy that my species is creating and serve as a symbol of responsibility. I want my body to be consumed by living creatures, if possible after being put to sodomous ends, in the fulfillment of my dedication to the Church of Euthanasia's mission to reduce human overpopulation and reclaim the proper role and character of human death. having the presence of mind to become a full member of the church, and having obeyed its One Commandment, I expect to be made a Saint immediately. ___________________ signed in blood or other body fluid ---------------------------------------------------- To: lemminglounge From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (boboroshi/CoE) Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 12:13:48 -0700 (PDT) if we're really dedicated to dying and have the energy, we'll change geographic locations, cut off and tie up all the loose ends of relationships, resolve all monetary contracts and future obligations, and generally prepare in a responsible way. ---------------------------------------------------- To: ash-l@hollyfeld.org From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (boboroshi/CoE) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:55:21 -0800 (PST) # if I get desperate, I can use the shotgun. I # just feel guilty about leaving a mess. (1) use an emergency hospital room; the personnel are used to cleaning up blood. (2) steal out to the wilderness where animals will devour you. (3) plant yourself next to a compost heap and rig up something that will bury you over time. ---------------------------------------------------- Subject: Suicide as a paid promotional stunt! From: uncited usenet post Date: Mon, Mar 1997 A jumper could dress in the company color scheme, and have a banner trailing them, and yell the slogan on the way down from a landmark bridge or building like the Golden Gate or Empire State. Suicides could designate beneficiaries for payment, like life insurance. ---------------------------------------------------- F. Letting others assist (making sure they don't suffer any sort of repercussions, legal hassles, etc.) [I don't know how serious this fellow was....] To: alt.suicide.methods From: "Barry Norris" Subject: Murder for suicides Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 04:17:53 -0000 My name is Barry Norris I would like to offer my services to any member of this group. With prior arrangement, I will travel to your home or location of choice and using your desired method I will kill you. I am prepared to use any agreed evil force to end your life on this earth. I promise to take you from your life and cast you away into the unknown. Your soul will leave your body at my hands. The vivid terms come with some apology but in no other way could I impress on you the nature of my services. Should you need it, I can offer you an additional facility whereby I 'dress the death'. Exempli Gratia, the scene is disguised in the form of a burglary or car accident should you wish to spare the feelings of family/friends. When, having carefully considered all the options, you are fully minded to take advantage of my help, please feel truly welcome to contact me. Thanks, Barry (+44) (0)118 967 1230 ebiro@dialstart.net 23 Alpine Street, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 2PY, Great Britain ---------------------------------------------------------- [METHODS] II. Choosing a Method or Combination of Methods To: suicidemethods@onelist.com From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (SOD of CoE) Subject: Duration and Quality of Suicide (was Death, not pain) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:56:45 -0700 (PDT) # What is the least painful way to commit suicide? there are two factors of importance in considering the experience of the suicide (ignoring collateral considerations like how the suicide will affect others): the DURATION before death (whether we would wish it extended or shortened; conventionally considered 'short' and 'long'), and the QUALITY of the subjective experience over the *course* of that duration (often painful, pleasurable, or of a neutral quality). the question of "the least painful way to intentionally end one's life" only takes into consideration the qualitative element of this experience. it is AFFECTED by the duration if disintegration/death occurs prior to the experience of pain (achieving a 'neutral' quality at best). therefore my response falls into two categorical types of intentional death: concussion and intoxication. concussion involves the incapacitation of nervous system receptors prior to their activation (as in being at the detonation point of a large bomb). intoxication includes the administration of gaseous or liquid substances such that pain is ameliorated by virtue of unconsciousness or absent by virtue of life-threatening developments which do not impact the nervous system. in considering intentionally ending one's life I will focus on means of suicide that SHOULD be commonly available to the individual citizen in an enlightened culture (projectile weapons, certain intoxicants), and I may omit possibilities available to the privileged and/or technically adept (e.g. nuclear weaponry). Concussion the easiest method of quickly incapacitating the nervous system is through a debilitating impact to the brainstem. this can be administered with a projectile weapon of sufficient caliber (such as a shotgun) aimed at the proper angle so as to disintegrate the head and end life immediately. it does require that one overcome one's own feelings of self-preservation or fear of self-inflicted pain in order to aim and fire the weapon. Intoxication a self-administered dosage (by a 'Mercitron'-like mechanism) of the substance used in killing unwanted pets, unwanted or damaged work animals, or those humans who have either been sentenced to die as a punishment for their heinous behavior (murder, torture, etc.) or who have requested assistance in dying (e.g. like those who have terminal illnesses who have sought succor in the assistance of Doctor Death, AKA Saint Kevorkian) is a very valuable way to avoid pain at the time of death. if more attention is paid to the QUALITY of the duration, rather than merely avoidance of pain, then there may be more pleasant ways of terminating one's life. these include the self-administration of substances like nitrous oxide (which displaces oxygen and produces euphoria) or some more common recreational substance like heroin, which, in sufficient quantity and composition can cause a depressive reaction sufficient to kill while including the euphoria that recreational users desire. the best methods I've seen described so far are somewhat messy. yet they can be taken to remote locations (e.g. shotgun to the brain-stem in the wilderness) and even protected with 'suicide scene ahead, beware' signs for the truly insufferable empath. the drive-yourself-hanging (probably resulting in a decapitation and an auto crash) seems pretty easy, physically, to arrange, and might lead to some interesting sensations. the classic desire is for a chemical that will 'put one to sleep' (which is what we do to pets when they become inconvenient). I'm unaware of any substance legally obtained which will achieve this. barbiturates (as are suggested by authors like Derek Hunphreys) work in combination with a bag if done right, but even these may have problems, as the Hemlock Society has made clear by its postscript advocation of pillows on the front flaps of the bags. guns and falls appear to be the most certain violent means. get a shotgun and aim at the brainstem and even with a botched attempt if we're far enough from civilized assistance we'll die from blood loss. get atop a communications tower (higher than most buildings and far from pedestrians) and jump and we're unlikely to survive it, especially if we rig piano wire to lop off our heads at the outset. Ideals there are more risky and potentially pleasant means of ending one's life that could also require study and a careful preparation, if not participation from others whose specialty is desirable. many find the ecstasy of orgasm is attractive as a last experience in their life. this could be combined with a pill or injection of some kind to be self-administered at a pre-determined moment so as to bring about cardiac arrest or collapse into unconsciousness at the end of an erotic fantasy funeral culminating in rapture and death. it is this latter kind of intentional suicide (by whatever standards of the individual) -- the kind which is exceedingly pleasing and enjoyable to the person who has chosen to die -- rather than one which merely minimizes pain, that I am most interested in making possible. ---------------------------------------------------------- RATINGS FORMAT IDEA [to be integrated to each suggestion below and rated] METHOD -- what the method is called AVAILABILITY/ACCESS -- how easy it is to achieve EXPERIENCE/SYMPTOMS -- what it will feel like ability to induce loss of consciousness and death without causing pain, distress, anxiety, or apprehension DURATION (PAIN/DEATH) -- how long it will take to die time required to induce unconsciousness EFFICACY -- how sure we can be it'll work age and body limitations COLLATERAL DAMAGE -- what other damage might be done DOSAGE/EQUIPMENT -- what items are needed SKILLS/EXPERTISE -- what we need to know how to do MYTHS/INACCURAIES -- false stories about it ---------------------------------------------------------- A. Ingestion/Injection/Inhalation suicide through ingestion, injection, and inhalation all depend on similar factors as regards efficiency: the person effecting the method body weight, age, physical condition, and skill in assessment of the necessary dosage or substance to achieve the desired result can vary tremendously. heavier people may require greater quantities of lethal substances to bring them down. the elderly may be more prone to the snuff than the young and vibrant body. ignorant and/or clumsy individuals may administer the wrong dosage, use the wrong delivery equipment or substance, and generally botch the job. the sickly and terminally ill or immuniologically-challenged may be more amenable to depressive and/or toxic termination. method of delivery pills are one of the more simple methods available, though they are tightly controlled in some countries by government agencies. raw herbs or roots may be readily available, though many of these will not bring the type of painless suicide so many seek out. chemical injections can be quite effective, though again as with pills the chemicals may have to be manufactured oneself or procured through a black market source, and some degree of familiarity with needles and the cardiovascular system is an asset in this type of delivery. possible sources of assistance where injections are concerned would be organizations or services which assist diabetics or homecare nursing. inhalants which displace breathable oxygen has qualities such as pressure and temperature which cannot be overlooked, nor can its availability and quality. agent of demise besides knowing WHAT substance one is dealing with, or the proper dosage, an entire range of opportunity for error is raised when considering the probable effects and whether they will lead to death and in what manner of experience. substances well-known for suicide such as alcohol or pills such as valium in conjunction with alcohol are manufactured in varying strengths, often provided numbers to indicate this strength. pills are often prescribed by doctors who may not even know the actual lethal dosage, even in combination with other ingestables. sometimes the dangers are EXAGGERATED intentionally so as to make fewer suicide attempts actually result in success. digestion can become disrupted by some substances and combinations so that vomitting may prevent the demise or becomes the primary cause of death (choking on vomit incapable of being expelled due to a depression of bodily systems). substances introduced can lead to serious debilitation without death, and the pain of some substances, even while leading to death, can become an inhibiting factor. suicide disruption because some of these methods are time-dependent and may take awhile to come to fruition, there is also the chance of interruption by well- meaning but intrusive individuals who call in authorities who take life-saving actions, discontinue the administration of the agent in question, or otherwise end the termination process without the permission of the person who had intended suicide. choosing a place and time conducive to privacy and uninterrupted suicide becomes integral to success, as does proper preparation in the face of equipment failure, the loss of potency of agents, and other unforeseen complications. ---------------------------------------------------------- 1. Chemicals a. Antifreeze To: alt.suicide.holiday From: bill lippencott@omserver2.cv.hp.com (bill) Date: 30 Sep 1997 06:01:02 GMT In article <19970930045700.AAA23984@ladder01.news.aol.com>, twright603@aol.com (TWright603) says: >60 minutes ran a story about antifreeze being mixed in >children's cough medicine and killing them. Has any one >heard of this as a suicide method? How quick would it >be? Would it burn? Perhaps it could be mixed? It is >supposed to taste quite sweet. Let me know your thoughts. >I've also heard of mixing bleach and amonia in a toilet >or bucket - the fumes can kill I'm told. Any truth? Thanks. Mixing bleach and amonia is toxic but it would have to be inhaled as a very concentrated gas... I guess. I didn't die while using this mixture for cleaning, but somehow it caused a gold ring on my finger to break like glass. Antifreeze IS toxic when ingested, tastes sweet and doesn't burn your mouth or throat... lower orifaces however may get tender. ----------------------------------------------------------- b. Cyanide anonymous: I've mentioned before that the cyanide constituent in kernels of almonds, peaches, apples, cherries, and apricots is not free hydrogen cyanide, which is a gas; rather, the compound is amygdalin. It is cyanide bound safely to benzaldehyde and glued shut with a couple of sugars. (For a picture, look in the Merck Index, or visit http://www.gov.sg/moh/mohiss/poison/pgamygdl.html ) As long as the molecule remains intact, it is harmless. Strong acid should decompose the compound to release free HCN, but I was wondering whether stomach acid is strong enough. Turns out, it isn't. The neat thing about these plant seeds is that the compound is packaged within them separately from three enzymes that rapidly decompose amygdalin. So when the seed is thoroughly crushed under moist conditions, that is when HCN is released--an effective defense against insect predators. A biologist is studying how the enzymes are manufactured separately from amygdalin and compartmentalized into different tissues within black cherries.... Humans have bacteria in our gut that manufacture beta-glucosidase, and to a degree this enzyme can act to release HCN as well, but there are other enzymes and processes that can act to transform HCN to the harmless thiocyanate nearly as fast. Amygdalin was given as a quack, heavily promoted cancer treatment in the seventies. It was variously known as Laetrile, and even passed off as Vitamin B17, which ostensibly was a nutrient that would prevent one from getting cancer. Now, this was purified amygdalin, without the enzymes that would cause it to spontaneously breakdown, so people could ingest gram amounts daily without tremendous side-effects. (The theory was that cancer cells would possess more b-glucosidase than normal cells, so cyanide would selectively kill them over normal cells; but these ideas about the disparity or even presence of these enzymes was shown to be simply not true. And there were rigorous, double blind studies that demonstrated no benefit to laetrile in the treatment of cancer.) Lethal or near-lethal cyanide poisoning using laetrile would usually involve ingestion of gram amounts of the purified 'drug' along with a source of the hydrolyzing enzymes. In one case, a man ate a lot of bitter almonds one day. In another, a woman ate freshly crushed apricot pits with her laetrile pills. Most of the poisonings (except in children) were nonlethal, and side-effects were severe and damage occasionally permament. Laetrile is still available in Mexico, and in fact I found a place on the web where one could apparently order some, but they have a screening process of sorts and depending on your location may not be able to deliver. ------------------------------------------------------ anonymous: > but then if what you say is true if we crush the seeds > and eat them, the enzymes within the seeds themselves > should activate to release the cyanic acid group. Yep. In fact, if you eat the seeds, you will be releasing some HCN. I like eating apple seeds because the benzaldehyde that is released along with the HCN has a pleasing almondy taste. ([omitted] suggested it is rather like Dr. Pepper, and I think that's so.) Anyway, you'd want the seeds to be thoroughly crushed _and moist_, and ingested immediately. (Alternatively, find some way to harvest the gas.) The issue is quantity. How much would you have to cram into your stomach to get several grams of amygdalin? And it's possible, too, that the enzymes won't work as well once they're in the mildly acidic environment of the stomach. About that I'm not sure. But if it simply slowed down hydrolysis, the poisoning would be time-released; excruciating, prolonged, and not necessarily effective. So yes, certainly a possible method. This would not be my choice, though; I wouldn't even consider it. ------------------------------------------------------------ anonymous: > Anyway, you'd want the seeds to be thoroughly crushed _and > moist_, and ingested immediately. (Alternatively, find some > way to harvest the gas.) on that point, i imagine a contraption: an industrial size, airtight crushing device, where peach pits are compressed and mixed in a small amount of water. maybe heated somewhat above room temperature. this is connected to tubing that bubbles through a solution of potassium hydroxide. when the pH of the solution becomes neutral, there are the same number of molecules KCN as there were KOH. ----------------------------------------------------------- To: talk.euthanasia,alt.suicide.holiday From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (boboroshi/CoE) Date: 13 Sep 1997 13:25:40 -0700 I was reading _The Big Book of Death_ this morning (recommended!!!), from Factoid Books, 1995, and in the chapter on Capital Punishment ('Capital Punishment, It's a Gas') a comic panel read: Deadly gas is released when cyanide pellets are dropped into shallow pans of sulfuric acid mixed with water. and it goes on to describe the symptoms of cyanide poisoning as including gasping, wheezing, thrashing, screaming, crying, faces turning purple, tongues sticking out, drooling, and that this doesn't happen 'particularly fast'. all in all I'd suggest it may not be a very effective method of suicide (in the sense of painless at least). and yet, what is the comparative concentration of the 'gas chamber pellet' to the crushed peach pit? what would the likely differences be between inhaling and ingestion, where death is concerned? are not the 'cyanide pills' used for quick-acting deaths among spies? ---------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.methods From: Mackenzie Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 19:43:14 -0500 I just found this on a web page titled Biology & Medicine: What's the poison in apple pips ? Cyanide poisoning can occur if too many apple pips are eaten (about a cupful has been known to kill a man). Many fruit kernels (e.g. apricots) contain cyanogenic glycosides, and without prolonged boiling, enzymes may release hydrocyanic acid and cause cyanide poisoning. http://www.campus.bt.com/CampusWorld/pub/ScienceNet/-> database/Biology/9701/b00701d.html ---------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.methods From: thardisonNOSPAM@mindspring.com (Travis Hardison) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 14:03:04 -0600 >> I seem to remember that US pilots who flew over >> Russia way back during the Cold War were given >> cyanide capsules to kill themselves if captured by >> the Rousskis. Gary Powers, whose spy plane was shot >> down in the early 60s (how time flies), had one but >> passed up the privilege. Anyway, my point is, those >> capsule ought to be pretty useful. How does one get >> hold of them? Or something similar? > > Take up photography. Cyanide is a needed chemical in > some film processing techniques. Or jewelry making, since cyanide is apparently used to clean impurities from old gold (according to John Sandford's 'Secret Prey', 1998, in which the criminal steals a small bottle of the stuff from a jeweler - a good book, too, BTW). ---------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.methods From: dmo777@my-dejanews.com Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 06:24:14 GMT [re sodium cyanide] > I sure do know that you don't just run down to > your local chemical supply store and buy KCN. > Often KCN suppliers will only sell to an > established business with a bonafide need > (i.e., a jewelry store). If they suspect you > are not a legit business, they may even report > you. They even know what to look for when > dealing with a potentially suicidal person. So, > unless you know a sure fire way to obtain the > KCN, its efficacy may unfortunately be, > irrelevant. I have to disagree. I bought 1 oz of sodium cyanide from a chemical supply house in Oreagan back in 1995. All I had to do was sign a paper saying i wasn't going to do anything illegel with it and that I was 18. I could have bought potassium cyanide for alittle bit more many. The stuff was dirt cheap but it cost a fortune to ship the stuff. ---------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.methods From: dmo777@my-dejanews.com Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 06:27:58 GMT Sodium cyanide can kill in ammounts as small as 600 mg. It should work almost the same as Potassium cyanide but i think the LD50 is alittle higher for sodium cyanide. ---------------------------------------------------------- c. Potassium Chloride To: alt.suicide.methods,alt.suicide.holiday From: "Snidely F Whiplash" Subject: Re: Potassium Chloride Injection Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:08:07 -0500 goingtodie: > ...As far as my initial posting to this group > asking about injecting potassium chloride, > I've now just received my 20cc syringe w/needle > ...so I think I've answered my basic question > of what kind to use. > > ...saturated potassium chloride solution (31%)... > 20cc ...my calculations...about 6.9 grams of > potassium chloride, which should be more than > sufficient.... I would like to quote the words of one who attempted suicide by this method. This was posted in early September, '99. kryptonite7 wrote in message... "If you are going to inject something to kill yourself, it better be insulin, morphine, phenobarbital or heroin, otherwise it could be incredibly painful and not lethal. Yesterday I injected potassium chloride (50mg/kg) and it wasn't lethal but it burned like hell, now I have blisters, my arm is swollen and the pain is beyond belief. I have been taking dozens of painkillers and valiums to ease the pain, BTW, a valium OD won't kill you unless you take 1600 valium pills (the lethal dose). I just found out that the lethal dose for potassium chloride is 117mg/kg (that's a lot of potassium chloride), but Kevorkian also uses sedatives (barbiturates) and muscle relaxants before injecting the potassium chloride, because it's very painful and stings almost as if it was acid...." Snidely again. My response to Kryptonite7... Potassium chloride (KCl) is very similar to sodium chloride (NaCl) or common table salt. KCl looks, smells and tastes like table salt and is, in fact, used as a salt substitute. If you've ever gotten salt in a skin wound (a cut or scrape) you know it stings like crazy. You exposed your vein (in effect, an open wound) to a LOT of salt. As to lethal doses, well, 117mg/kg can, without question, be a lethal dose. But, under proper circumstances, as little as 18 mg/kg can be instantly lethal to a 75 kg (165) lb adult. The key is getting it into the bloodstream through a large vein (for instance, the one in your neck, chest or groin) very rapidly, without destroying that vein (the one in your arm just isn't big enough). This is something most people are not equipped to do at home. The injection of potassium chloride, while it may sound inviting (clean, quick), is just NOT a very good method for unassisted suicide. ---------------------------------------------------------- 2. Depressants To: alt.suicide.holiday From: steward@netaxs.com (steward) Subject: Re: experience vs. expert info (methods) Date: 18 May 1999 00:54:00 GMT > What if this had been the other way round? I mean, > the difference between the "factual information" > -- thousands of mgs -- and the The focus in alt.suicide.holiday is on trying to figure out the dosage that is likely to kill just about -anyone-. The LD-50 is what is believed will kill 50% of people who take it (it's only tested on rats or mice usually). So, if the focus of this group was poison control, we'd probably refer to the LD-50 as a "deadly dose", because, to be on the safe side from the poison control point of view, someone who had taken the LD-50 should be brought to the emergency room *immediately*. But, the focus -here- is on being -sure- of dying, and 50% is damn low odds considering the cost of failure. Thus, dosages quoted here are often several times the LD-50 (as toxicity often does not follow a straight line for that last 20% or so). Remember, these are dosages for people to die with, not the maximum "safe" dose to self-medicate with. When I post LD-50 information, I add the following: == PS: LD-50 means the amount of drug it took to kill 50% of the subject group, usually mice or rats. Doubling the dosage does not necessarily make it 100%. mg/kg means that for each kg that you weigh (Americans: 1 kg = 2.2 lb) you need that dose in mg; for example if it were 2mg/kg and you weighed 70kg you'd need 140 mg for the LD-50. Note too that doubling that amount does not ensure death. People vary. People take six times the lethal dose of something and manage somehow to survive because bodies differ. Although LD-50 is the best measure available, it does not necessarily equate exactly to humans. Unfortunately, human data is not available because the FDA won't let drug companies take a pool of 1200 or so humans and feed them a drug until 600 are dead. == In the other direction of focus, however, LD-50 is a damn risky dose to take if you're -NOT- trying to die.. ---------------------------------------------------------- a. Alcohol To: private email From: derez@yahoo.com (Deyan Reszka) Date: 29 Mar 1998 14:54:28 -0500 RE 'vodka enema' method Alcohol via enema is, depending who you ask, 3-6 times more potent than via mouth. Absorption is fast, and, as you point out, vomiting is not an effective recourse. Be careful in experimentation: start with something like 1/6th of what you would take via mouth, and try another dose only in a seperate session after fully recovering from a previous dose (at least 12 hours). Same for other drugs administered rectally that would normally be taken orally, such as caffeine, etc. I gather that the short-term lethal effect of alcohol overdose is caused by oxygen deprivation as the body overworks trying to oxidize the alcohol. Likely to be quite uncomfortable, even given the slight anaesthetic effect. Also, hard alcohol would create an agonizing burning sensation in the lower intestine, which, along with the cramping, would obviously make one quite miserable while waiting for the effects. Note also that most people cannot easily hold even 2 quarts of comfortable warm salted water (osmosis balanced), much less an irritating fluid, even with a bardex device (inflatable backflow prevention). ---------------------------------------------------------- b. Heroin and other Controlled Substances To: alt.suicide.holiday From: rorsch@senet.com.au (rorschach) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 06:11:57 GMT >>Yummy. DH is a waste of time, get some street grade >>smack. Much nicer way to go, if you don't get the >>shit beat out of you procuring it. > > ...My objective is NOT to get high, you idiot. >Also, the risk factors for procuring the smack are >too high. Death from street smack is uncertain. >Besides, I don't know where I would get it from. Death from heroin is very certain if you inject enough of it and (most importantly) are not 'rescued'. Parameds just give you a shot of norcain? and all effects of H disappear almost straight away. It can be purchased in any bigish city. Good dealers are quite used to transactions with professionals and 'straight' people but are quite expensive. Of course it is a controlled substance and you will be charged if caught by law enforcement so the risk factor is quite high. In high doses it kills by turning off the brain, specifically the part of the brain that controls breathing. It's NOT like asphyxiation, your body doesn't cry out for air or anything it just forgets that it needs to breathe and you just fade away. It lower doses it doesn't turn off the brain so far, just enough to make you forget external stimulii and the world. ----------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide,alt.suicide.holiday,alt.suicide.finals From: White Spirit Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 16:32:53 +0000 > I have on hand about 1 gram of codeine (actually is > 150 tablets of 375 mg Acetylsalicylic Acid with 8 mg > Codeine.) If you use the codeine dissolve the tablets in 2ml water/tablet and pass the liquid through a coffee filter. Keep the liquid and throw away the aspirin. > According to info on a couple web pages, the > combination of codeine and dimenhydrate can induce > deep sedation. Is this reliable? Only with a plastic bag. Codeine inhibits itself when taken orally so is not the best method to use. Combine the codeine and diphenhydramine with cyanide, preferably straight into your veins, and then it should hopefully be fairly painless. --------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday,alt.suicide.methods From: bye bye birdi Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 14:21:49 GMT > i obtained quite a bit of valium and halcion from > mexico. i figured that's probably as good as i can do > since i can't get my hands on barbiturates. benzos > are incredibly easy to get in mexico (of course i > realize for some people that trip is out of the > question). i don't think they're too tough to get > from american docs either. as long as you're using > the bag, you don't need a big supply - just enough to > knock you out. if you can't get any benzos, then OTC > sleeping pills might still work. i guess > diphenhydramine would probably be the best of those. > and alcohol always helps with any of these drugs. ----------------------------------------------------------- c. Barbiturates and 'Sleeping Pills' from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm Barbituric Acid Derivatives [injected] Barbiturates depress the central nervous system in descending order, beginning with the cerebral cortex, with unconsciousness progressing to anesthesia. With an overdose, deep anesthesia progresses to apnea, owing to depression of the respiratory center, which is followed by cardiac arrest. Barbiturates have rapid onset of action.... Desirable barbiturates are those that are potent, long-acting, stable in solution, and inexpensive. Sodium pentobarbital fits these criteria and is most widely used, although others such as secobarbital are acceptable. A primary advantage of barbiturates is speed of action. This effect depends on the dose, concentration, and rate of injection. Barbiturates induce euthanasia smoothly, with minimal discomfort to the animal.... Intravenous injection is necessary for best results, necessitating trained personnel.... Current federal drug regulations require strict accounting for the barbiturates and these must be used under the supervision of personnel registered with the US Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA). ------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: jbentley Date: 29 JAN 1996 05:52:27 -0500 I grabbed this out of a book called The Prediction of Suicide by some lame psychiatrists, but I thought this list was informative... # Toxicity Chart: 30 Toxic Drugs Frequently Used # in Suicide Attempts # # Key: 1000 milligrams (mg.) = 15 grains (gr.) = 1 gram (gm.) # # MLD = Minimum Lethal Dose # # Notes: # 1. Special adjustments for scoring are found at the # end of the chart. # 2. If tablet strength is recorded, make sure the # common dosage in column four corresponds with # the strength ingested. dosage in column four # corresponds with the strength ingested. # # Toxicity: Mild = 0-33% of MLD, # Moderate = 34-66% of # Severe = 67%+ of MLD # # Commonly Est MLD # Available # of tablets # Drug Est. MLD Doses at most # common dosage # -------------------------------------------------------------- # Aspirin, Bufferin 5 gr. 90/5 gr. # (acetylsalicylics) 30 gm. (.33 gm.) # Anacin, Excedrin # -------------------------------------------------------------- # Amytal (anombarbital) 1.5 gm. 15,30,50,100 mg. 30/50 mg. # -------------------------------------------------------------- # Benadryl # (diphenhydramine) 3 gm. 35, 50 mg. 60/50 mg. # 47%Benadryl # (diphenhydramine) 3 gm. 35, 50 mg. 60/50 mg. # -------------------------------------------------------------- # Butisol (butabarbital)1 gm. 15,30,50,100 mg. 30/30 mg. # -------------------------------------------------------------- # Carbrital # (pentobarbital +) 1 gm. 75,100 mg. 10/100 mg. # -------------------------------------------------------------- # Darvon (propoxyphene) 2 gm. 30,65 mg. 30/65 mg. # -------------------------------------------------------------- # Demerol (meperidine) 1.2 gm. 50,100 mg. 24/50 mg. # -------------------------------------------------------------- # Dilantin # (diphenylhydantoin) 3 gm. 30,100 mg. 30/100 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Doriden (glutethimide) 8 gm. 250,500 mg. 16/500 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Dramamine # (dimenhydrinate) 5 gm. 50 mg. 100/50 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Elavil (amitriptyline) 3 gm. 10,25,50 mg. 120/25 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Equanil, Miltown # (meprobamate) 15 gm. 200,400 mg. 38/400 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Felsules # (chloral Hydrate) 10 gm. 250,500 mg. 20/500 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Librium # (chlordiaepoxide) 5 gm. 5,10,25 mg. 500/10 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Luminal (phenobarbital) 1.5 gm. 15,30,100 mg. 40/30 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Mellaril (thioridazine) 3 gm. 10,25,50,100 # 150,200 mg. 100/25 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Nembutal (pentobarbital) 1 gm 30,50,100 mg. 10/100 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Noludar (methyprylon) 5 gm. 50,200,300 mg. 17/300 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Nytol, Sominex # (methapyrilene +) 3.5 gm. 25,50 mg. 140/25 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Percodan # (dihydrophydroxy-codeinine) # .5 gm. 4.5 mg. 125/4.5 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Placydil (ehtchlorvynol) 15 gm. 100,200,500 mg. 30/500 mg. # ---------------------------------------------------------------- # Seconal (secobarbital) 1.5 gm. 30,50,100 mg. 15/100 mg. # ---------------------------------------------------------------- # Seraz (oxazepam) 10 gm. 10,15,30 mg. 333/30 mg. # ---------------------------------------------------------------- # Stelazine (trifluoperazine) # 2.5 gm. 1,2,5,10 mg. 500/5 mg. # ---------------------------------------------------------------- # Thorazine # (chlorpromazine) 2.2 gm. 10,25,30,50,75,200 mg. 44/50 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Tofranil (imipramine) 2.5 mg. 10,25,50 mg. 100/25 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Tuinal # (amo/secobarbital) 1.5 mg. 50,100,200 mg. 15/100 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Valium (diazepam) 8 gm. 2,5,10 mg. 1600/5 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Valmid (ethinamate) 15 gm. 500 mg. 30/500 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Veronal, Bs (barbital) 3 gm. 15,30,300 mg. 100/30 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # # Special Adjustments for Scoring: # 1. When any ingestion is accompanied by ETOH # (ethyl alchohol), increases the toxicity # level by approx 50% # # 2. If it is established that a person is a # regular drug user, then raise the number of # milligrams for MLD by 33% ----------------------------------------------------------------- anonymous source: Interpharm http://216.147.122.186/interpharm/ ----------------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: Marc Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 14:37:52 +0100 > >> Just curious, but how probable would a fatal OD > >> be if you took too many barbituates or > >> benzodiazepines? Alcohol increases the > >> likelihood right? > > What about the benzos? How much is required? If you want to do it with any benzo shit, just one caution: if take them too slowly, there is a chance that you soon will be so out of it that you won't be able to (as in too stoned) to get round to taking the rest. When I first tried to commit suicide it involved diazepam (valium) and after a while I was floating high among the clouds and didn't remember a thing till I woke up in hospital next morning. From what I read in the methods file you'll need alcohol as well (I think). --------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: Edmund E Ong Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 13:24:57 -0700 I took a look at "Final Exit", and according to the author benzos are pretty unreliable without the infamous plastic bag. The best way to go out with drugs is through a fast-acting barbituate such as Seconal or Nembutal. Phenobarbital is not as good because it is slow-acting. The only problem is that it is quite difficult to obtain a prescription for Seconal/Nembutal...docs aren't stupid. ---------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: "Cerkit [Breaker]" Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:34:07 -0700 > Can anyone provide information on caffeine overdose > as a suicide method? The methods file says that a > dosage of 20 grams is required; easy to get from > wake-up pills. But it doesn't have any information > on time, certainty, unpleasantness etc. Is this > a good method? I would think not. I've taken a few too many of those pills before, just for fun, and I ended up passing out in a puddle of my own vomit behind a movie theatre. I was drunk and high at the time too, but it was the caffeine that took me overboard; it was one of the more unpleasant things I've experienced physically. ----------------------------------------------------- anonymous: The way I managed to get some barbiturates (seconal) was to call a psychiatrist and tell him that I was in the process of looking for work and and was unable to fall asleep the night before an interview due to extreme anxiety which would then lead to my blowing the interview. I had tried all of the milder tranquilizers without effect and so needed something really strong to knock me out on the night before an interview. That way the shrink didn't have to worry that I might become dependent on a barbiturate since I'd only be taking it intermittently and for a short term. I also told him that I had been prescribed seconal for a similar purpose before and had taken it very successfully for relief of short-term anxiety without any problems but the doctor who prescribed it had since moved his practice. The key to this approach is not to reveal any clues to your underlying suicidal ideation and present yourself as having no major psychological problems other than short-term situational anxiety. The first two shrinks I called with this approach were both willing to prescribe it to me. I don't plan to use my stash in the near future but felt a desperate need to have the option available if and when I choose use it. ------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: und@eab.le (Ludolf Wittgenplastic) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 23:34:11 GMT ...Some twelve years ago, I tried to off myself.... I decided to OD on psychopharmakons. I was fucking scared though, but reasoned that I could back out any time. Funny thing was, after swallowing some 20 of these, all fear vanished, and the only thing I felt was an immense joy to finally get over with it -- and I quickly gulped down the rest of the 100 or so. What I didn't realize was that you can literally swallow thousands of those without dying. Anyway, YMMV but I've found these pills (they were meant to fight depression and anxiety in the first place) extremely potent to overcome the survival instinct. If your brain works like mine, you won't give a damn. --------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.finals From: xoticsrus@aol.comjnkbgone (Xoticsr us) Date: 6 May 1999 14:24:38 GMT > Does anybody know the quickest most painless and > most likely to happen mehtod of suicide? I have > heard that carbon monoxide poisoning will work. > Anybody have any way of getting sleeping pills? Strange. That is the most commonly asked question on this newsgroup. I understand the carbon monoxide method is the easiest and least painful. Beware of the overdose route. If you fail, you get the pleasure of having your stomach pumped. That's enough to dissuade almost anyone from trying that route again (myself not included). It took three failures for me to decide I needed to find a better method. --------------------------------------------------- 3. Carbon Monoxide (CO) from http://www.csia.org/home/cohazard.htm WHAT IS CARBON MONOXIDE? ...carbon monoxide is a very dangerous, colorless, odorless gas.... WHAT CARBON MONOXIDE DOES TO YOU Too much carbon monoxide in your blood will kill you. ...low-level exposure to this gas also endangers your health. ...given a choice between carbon monoxide and oxygen, the protein hemoglobin in our blood will always latch on to carbon monoxide and ignore the life-giving oxygen. Because of this natural chemical affinity, our bodies - in effect - replace oxygen with carbon monoxide in our bloodstream, causing greater or lesser levels of cell suffocation depending on the intensity and duration of exposure. The side-effects that can result from this low-level exposure include permanent organ and brain damage. Infants and the elderly are more susceptible than healthy adults, as are those with anemia or heart disease. ----------------------------------------------------------- from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm Carbon Monoxide Carbon monoxide (CO) is a colorless, odorless gas that is nonflammable and nonexplosive until concentrations exceed 10%. It combines with hemoglobin to form carboxyhemoglobin and blocks the uptake of oxygen by erythrocytes, leading to fatal hypoxemia. In people, the most common symptoms of early CO toxicosis are headache, dizziness, and weakness. As concentrations of carboxyhemoglobin increase, these signs may be followed by decreased visual acuity, tinnitus, nausea, progressive depression, confusion, and collapse. Because CO stimulates motor centers in the brain, unconsciousness may be accompanied by convulsions and muscular spasms. Carbon monoxide is a cumulative poison. Distinct signs of CO toxicosis are not evident until the concentration is 0.05% in air, and acute signs do not develop until the concentration is approximately 0.2%. In human beings, exposure to 0.32% CO and 0.45% CO for one hour will induce unconsciousness and death, respectively.... In the past, mass euthanasia has been accomplished by using three methods for generating CO: (1) chemical interaction of sodium formate and sulfuric acid; (2) exhaust fumes from idling gasoline internal combustion engines; and (3) commercially compressed CO in cylinders. The first two techniques are associated with a number of problems, such as production of other gases, inadequate concentrations of carbon monoxide achieved, inadequate cooling of the gas, and maintenance of the equipment; therefore, the only recommended source is compressed CO in cylinders. Carbon monoxide induces unconsciousness without pain and with minimal discernible discomfort. Hypoxemia induced by CO is insidious, so that the animal appears to be unaware. (3) Death occurs rapidly if concentrations of 4-6% are used. Any electrical equipment exposed to CO (eg, lights and fans) must be explosion proof. ------------------------------------------------------ To: alt.suicide.holiday From: Shddemon@cris.com (SHADOWDEMON) Date: 19 Jun 1997 09:14:00 GMT 6 hours MIGHT be enough time; do you have a catyltic converter? What about fuel injection? Either one of those and you won't die that quickley, & will probably have a pretty painful throbbing headache. Basically, if your car passed the emissions test, you won't die. If you can't get to a hyperbaric chamber afterwords, you WILL recieve permanant brain damage (you might anyway, but probably not as much if you get treatment) ------------------------------------------------------ To: alt.suicide.holiday From: tagtraeumer Date: 3 Sep 1997 16:33:02 -0000 >Is it true that if you lock yourself in the garage >with the car engine turned on, sooner or later you >will die of carbon monixide poisoning? Depends on your car... best if you have an old junker. Buy a carbon monoxide detector (not a cheap one that can only beep) You need a handheld device with digital scale. Search for "co-detector" on http://www.altavista.com You must maintain a concentration of at least 0.5% (5000ppm) carbon monoxide in the air. The side effects of CO poisoning include headache and vomiting, so take some painkillers and travel sickness pills before. If you fail, you could end up brain damaged. ----------------------------------------------------- anonymous: ...newer cars have a much lower ratio and this makes death far less likely. I imagine one either has to get an older car or disable to the catalytic converter in some way. however, there are other kinds of motors which emit CO, such as those of lawn mowers, boat engines, blower engines and the like, and even the very low-burning fire (hibachi) may do the trick. ------------------------------------------------------ To: alt.suicide.holiday From: ichi@earthling.net (Ichimusai) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 13:25:26 GMT A neighbour a couple of houses just down the road killed himself about two weeks ago with the exact method. That was a quite new car (last years model) german Audi. So it did work. So what was wrong? Did he use old gas? Are Audi cars not keeping up with technology? ------------------------------------------------- anonymous: ...garden hoses may not be equipped to deliver a continuous supply from the exhaust pipe because they are not designed for very hot gases. I don't know if this is true. the recommendation was made that automotive stores may have specially-designed hoses to carry the CO outside while working in one's enclosed garage. if so, then this may prove to be a perfect solution to that. ...special heat- resistant tape may be important in securing the hose to the exhaust pipe, else it may melt off before death occurs. ---------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: "Doug Jacobson" Subject: Carbon Monoxide (CO) Poisoning As a Method of Suicide. Date: 29 Jun 98 22:38:51 -0400 Carbon Monoxide (CO) Poisoning As a Method of Suicide. The following information reflects material I have researched from a variety of sources. Many of the web-based sources are referenced by their URL at the end of this document. Part One: Life, Death and Gas By the time we reached fifth grade we all knew that animal life depends upon oxygen. When we lose the availability of oxygen we asphyxiate. Common methods of asphyxia include drowning, strangulation, obstructed airways, etc. Asphyxia can also be caused by the absence of oxygen in an environment where we are free to breathe, inside a plastic bag, for example. When we learned that we needed oxygen to survive we also learned that we produce carbon dioxide (CO2) as a waste product. The body is very sensitive to high levels of CO2 and when present will begin an involuntary reaction that includes panic and increased rate of breathing. You can try this with a plastic bag over your head. In a minute or two you will become acutely aware that you need to breathe fresh air, even though you have yet to experience oxygen deprivation, your body has become aware of the high levels of CO2 and is automatically alerting you to seek fresher air. Sometimes gases can replace oxygen and induce death without causing a CO2 panic reaction. Some of these gases are bioreactive gases and some are innocuous gases. Innocuous gases, such as nitrogen (which makes up about 70% of the atmosphere) do not cause the asphyxia panic that CO2 does. Replacing oxygen with nitrogen will cause death, but I do not know much about this. Some bioreactive gases, such as nitrous oxide (NO), produce specific reactions that are well perceived at the time of poisoning. NO is widely used as an analgesic in dentistry, it is commonly known as laughing gas. It produces a sense of euphoria and it can easily be lethal. Another gas that is bioreactive is Carbon Monoxide (CO). CO is commonly available, easily produced, colorless, tasteless and odorless. It can produce some vague, flu-like symptoms before causing death. The order of symptoms that might occur as someone dies of CO poisoning are: Headache Dizziness Upset Stomach Clumsiness Drowsiness Brain Damage Death Part Two: carbon Monoxide and Suicide: The three principle advantages for CO poisoning for the suicide are: Availability Lack of discomfort Speed Carbon monoxide is produced when anything ---ANYTHING--- is burned incompletely. (Virtually all combustion is incomplete, so it safe to safe that anytime you burn anything you produce CO.) The most common sources of accidental and suicidal deaths by CO are automobiles and furnaces/hot water heaters, but CO can be used for suicide wherever there is (1) combustion and (2) a contained area in which to collect the CO. Other sources of CO that have caused poison deaths are fireplaces, gas clothes dryers, ovens, stoves, space heaters, braziers, charcoal briquettes, etc. CO is heavier than other gases normally found in our atmosphere or as products of combustion. Thus, given that all gases are at the same temperature and pressure, CO will collect at the bottom of a container. If that container, a room for example, leaks at the bottom CO will be the gas most likely to leak out. If that room leaks (or is vented) at the top, other gases will leak out allowing a quicker and higher concentration of CO to accumulate. Concentrations of CO of 800 parts per million (ppm) can be lethal after three hours. At 6,400 ppm death occurs within 30 minutes or less. CO is better than oxygen at binding with the hemoglobin in our red blood cells. When CO and Hemoglobin combine they produce carboxyhemoglobin. This has a half life of five hours and concentrations of about 50% (half of the hemoglobin is bound up as carboxyhemoglobin) produce death. So, in a low concentration of CO, where less than 15% of the hemoglobin becomes bound to CO each hour, lethal levels are still reached within five hours since it takes so long for the carboxyhemoglobin to leave the system. Part Three: Choosing a Source for CO: Your best bet for producing lethal levels of CO might be burning a charcoal grill in a well insulated garage or room. Start it out-of-doors and burn it till you have a good bed of glowing coals. Then move it indoors and close up the space. I have constructed a diverter for the flue from my hot water heater so that it will vent into my living room. My hot water heater burns natural gas which produces a pleasant (for me) smelling exhaust and I can use this method to die inside my home with only a small risk of a fire. Automobiles (or any devices with gas or diesel engines) produce adequate quantities of CO. Diverting the exhaust into the passenger cabin of a car gives one the opportunity to die in any variety of places, including a favorite scenic lookout, without putting others at risk. Since 1975 in the US, and 1993 in the UK, passenger cars have been equipped with required catalytic converters. The goal is to reduce the emission of CO, oxides of nitrogen and unburned hydrocarbons. Depending upon the car, this is accomplished by balancing the tuning of the carburation, use of catalysts in the catalytic converter and injection of oxygen into the exhaust. The effectiveness of this system depends upon the car being well tuned and the oxygen sensor being in good working order. Increasing the carburetor mixture to "rich" or applying choke by operating a manual choke or by defeating the automatic choke, will increase the amount of CO in the exhaust. Defeating the oxygen sensor (which is designed to fail at 50,000 miles) or removing the catalytic converter will also increase the CO content. In any event, a well- tuned car with emissions controls in place will still produce adequate levels of CO to cause death, but it will take longer. When piping auto exhaust into a closed auto cabin the floor vents should be closed and the windows should be slightly open. A cold engine will always produce a higher concentration of CO than a hot engine. Whatever method you choose it should be easy to predict the length of time it takes to produce and collect a lethal level of CO. You can use CO detectors (with digital readouts), readily available at any hardware or home supply store, to measure the level of CO accumulated over a period of time and the rate of increase. It is then easy to extrapolate how long it will take to build up to the concentration you desire. Accessories for Death by CO Poisoning In about half the cases of suicide by CO (in automobiles) it was determined that alcohol and/or drugs were present. You may be able to predict, but you will hardly be sure, how long it will take before you become unconscious. During that time there may be other exhaust fumes, humidity or warm temperatures. It seems to make sense to have some drinks, drugs, music, etc. available for the minutes it will take to become unaware. Reference URL's: http://www.freenet.msp.mn.us/people/guestb/pubed/cofaq.html http://www.phymac.med.wayne.edu/FacultyProfile/penney/COHQ/co1.htm http://www.phymac.med.wayne.edu/FacultyProfile/penney/COHQ/COMotoVeh/cosuicide2.htm http://www.phymac.med.wayne.edu/FacultyProfile/penney/COHQ/COMotoVeh/cosuicide3.htm http://www.sencosensors.com/ http://www.nsc.org/ehc/indoor/mse.htm http://www.epa.gov/OMSWWW/03-co.htm http://www.phymac.med.wayne.edu/FacultyProfile/penney/COHQ/co1.htm ---------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: dr@ripco.com (David Richards) Date: 6 Jul 1997 08:36:38 GMT > Hi, on the night of July 3rd, I attempted to kill > myself by carbon monoxide poisoning. I skipped > work that day, and bought the garden hose, duct > tape, sleeping pills called "Unisom SleepGels", > and filled the gas tank to my crappy '81 Mazda 626. 1) Garden hose is too small diameter to be effective, and also will melt at high temperatures. 2) Duct tape also melts. 3) Unisom is barely effective as a sleep aid. Next time, stop in at your local auto supply store, ask for muffler mending tape and a 5' flexible hose for same. If they ask, tell them you work on your car in your garage and don't want CO poisoning :-) > I parked behind an abandoned building where a > grocery supermarket once was and popped 5 of > those pills. It said one would be good enough... > but i didn't start feeling drowsy until like 30-45 > mins later... FIVE? Just five pills isn't much of an attempt :-) And you forgot the requisite bottle of scotch, as found at all the best suicide scenes. >so I started up the engine and I guess I fell asleep. >I think about 10 mins later, I woke up because my >toes and my fingers started to tingle. This is a known side effect. Here's where the alcohol comes in -- if you've ever gotten even close to drunk, you know that booze makes your skin numb == no tingling. >The feeling bothered me (I was hoping to be passed >out so I wouldn't have to feel it in the first place) >so that frightened me and I turned the ignition off. >Yeah, I chickened out. Nothing to be ashamed of. > Good thing though....my brother is a diabetic. > So I'm gonna try Not very nice for your brother. > injecting the insulin into my system on Sunday night > so I could die in my sleep or supposedly when my > family believes I'm sleeping. Unfortunately my > brother won't have any in the morning to use for his > daily shots. If you have access to his needles, there's plenty else you can inject for a faster demise, and less guilt (or risk from lack of insulin) for the brother. > But anyways...my suggestion for CO poisoning...do > anything you can to get passed out so in case that > tingling feeling in your toes and fingers bother > you like it did to me...you won't be conscious to > feel it and then quit with the whole procedure. The methods file doesn't have much on CO right now, this would be a good addition. It's also been mentioned here that modern gasoline and catalytic converters don't send much CO out the tailpile these days. > I'm sure a lot of people are gonna poke fun at > this post...you can if you want...it's not going > to hurt my feelings :) --------------------------------------------------- from http://www.ps.ex.state.ut.us/sc/co.htm The Invisible Threat . . . Carbon Monoxide (CO) is an odorless, colorless and tasteless gas that can find its way into your home through a number of common sources: * Malfunctioning Furnace * Cars left running in a garage or other closed area * Grills, Hibachis and other fuel burning appliances * Fireplaces or clogged chimneys * Improperly installed gas ranges or vents Unlike smoke or heat from a fire, carbon monoxide is truly invisible-and extremely dangerous. ...high-quality Carbon Monoxide detector. ...Nighthawk detectors have been ranked #1 in quality, accuracy and low false alarm rates by a leading consumer magazine.... These models come equipped with the following user-friendly features: * Easy installation on any standard wall outlet * Loud 85-decibel alarm instantly alerts you when CO levels become dangerously high * Advanced long-life, state-of-the-art carbon monoxide sensor never needs replacement * No re-calibration needed * Full five-year warranty ...With an easy-to-read digital display, this model will instantly alert you to life-threatening levels in your home.... You can determine if you have a small problem, whether levels are increasing, or if you're in a life-threatening situation. This model also has a sophisticated memory feature (the only one on the market) that records the highest level of carbon monoxide present since the last time the unit was reset. This will help you gauge carbon monoxide levels when you're sleeping or away from home. --------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: dot@interactive.no.spam.net (DL) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:50:41 -0500 > Modern cars burn gas more efficiently too, creating less > CO. I'm looking at a bbq in a small sealed room with a > regular dose of sleeping pills and a little alcohol. > Still looking for a qualified opinion though. If you ever > get an answer on good CO production, post it or email me > please.... You can produce CO by mixing limestone chips (from a garden supply store) with some kind of acid, but I forget the acid. Anyone have a chemistry textbook? ---------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday,alt.suicide.methods From: "The CrapHead!" Date: 12 Jan 98 15:23:34 -0100 > Now, any chemists out there who know how to rig a CO > generator from household chemicals? The two easiest ways to make CO are: 1. Add formic acid to hot concentrated sulfuric acid. 2. Heat a mixture of calsiumcarbonate and zink. Method 1: The sulfuric acid removes H2O from the formic acid, leaving CO-gas. HCOOH -> H2O + CO To create one mole of CO-gas, you need 46g of formic acid (assuming complete reaction) and at least 100g of concentrated sulfuric acid. As the sulfuric acid is dilluted by the water created by the reaction, you need more than 100g of sulfuric acid, so the reaction doesn't stop. The formic acid and sulfuric acid should be concentrated to speed up the reaction. Method 2: The calsiumcarbonate reacts with the zink, giving calsiumoxide, zinkoxide and CO-gas. CaCO3 + Zn -> CaO + ZnO + CO To create one mole of CO-gas, you need 100g CaCO3 and 65.3g Zn (assuming complete reaction). The zink and calsiumcarbonate should be finely powdered and well mixed to speed up the reaction. One mole of gas fills up 22.4 cubic decimeters (=22.4 litres). You you should have a concentration of at least 1% CO in the air to kill yourself. It's probably a good idea to collect the CO in a bag. Just make sure you don't have too much leakage. --------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.methods From: "not sleepy" Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 16:38:49 +0100 >> I also wonder how death comes about this way, >> and if there are any other aids one should >> use (sleeping pills, alcohol, you-name-what). > >Dunno - sleeping pills might help to take you out first. > >> Am I going to slowly loose consciousness? > >Yup, I think so. > >> Or will I chicken out due to heavy coughing and >> choking? > >This is what I wonder about car exhausts... There is an extract in Geo Stone's book [see later in this guide], merits and accuracies discussed elsewhere, regarding the finale during CO suicide. It is the translation of a note written by a Japanese suicide while their car was filling with carbon monoxide and credited as being extracted from "Suicidal Carbon Monoxide Inhalation of Exhaust Fumes, Investigation of Cases" by S Tsunenari, et al as originally published in The American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology 6(3) (September 1985): 233-39. "{At 6:15pm} The inhalation of exhaust gasses is begun. {After seven minutes} My eyes and throat are slightly irritated. Put on a bathing towel. There are tremendous water drops on the door glass. The tank is full of gasoline. {After eight and a half minutes} Slight shortness of breath. Ha-ha-ha. The powers of Nissan's engines are great! {After ten minutes} Swallowed a cup of sake. I could not control myself to stay in the cabin {of the mini-van} at this level of shortness-of-breath yesterday. {After eleven minutes} To the mistress of a grocery store; "Yes, you were right. The size of this hose, 30mm in outer diameter and 25mm in inner diameter, fits the exhaust pipe perfectly. {After twelve and a half minutes} Swallowed another cup of sake. I wish I could have a can of beer. I wonder what the concentration of carbon monoxide is now. {After fourteen minutes} Breathing can only be done by mouth. {After fifteen minutes} Water is pouring out of the hose. {After sixteen minutes} Goodbye, Mum and Papa! {and a list of six people}. {After seventeen minutes} Still I am living. It is asthmatic breathing. Now, I will sleep. This was the last entry." --------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: "L Williamson" Subject: Re: CO and catalytic converters Date: 18 Jun 1998 09:24:03 GMT > An article in The Times (UK) 17 June 1998..... > I'll paraphrase, with inserted comments as appropriate: > > "Catalytic converters reduce car suicides > > The growing use of cat. converters in car exhaust > systems has led to a sharp decline in suicide rates > among men in the 1990s, > One of the authors said she believed > that the introduction of cats > had led to the biggest change in British suicide > patterns since the replacement of poisonous coal > gas with non-toxic natural gas > in the 1970s, which was also followed by a > substantial drop in the number of suicides." > > .................................................. > > Well, despite the article's shaky scientific > postulating, this gives an interesting twist to > the debate about whether or not CO emissions are > reduced from cars with catalytic converters; > several posters in the past have indicated that > cats merely reduce other emissions, and that CO is > still at the same level whether it be a new car > or an old one. > > Has anyone out there any information on this? > Is the article actually misleading us (by acting > as Nanny-State arbiter in our own best interests, > of course!)? > > Interesting also that it seems to be a male thing. Statistically more men than women have cars at younger ages. That is why my insurance was crippling when I first started to drive. --------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: hermotimus Subject: Re: CO and catalytic converters Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 15:55:24 -0500 ...As to getting around the catalytic convert: can't you destroy the effectivnessof the catalyst by putting leaded gasoline in the car? The nozzles for regular leaded gas won't fit in the fuel intake (in the U.S., at least), but it is easy enough to buy a gas can and fill 'er up a few times. Or, another easy method: Put the car on jacks; crawl under with a hacksaw or pipe-cutter, and saw through the exhaust just ahead of the catalytic converter (it's roughly square, ahead of the muffler). Of course, it's *illegal* to bypass your car's emissions-control system, but..... --------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: "Doug Jacobson" Subject: Carbon Monoxide, Catalytic Converters and Humble Pie Date: 19 Jun 98 11:16:55 -0400 It's time for me to eat some humble pie. After my many adamant statements that catalytic converters do NOTHING to reduce emissions of carbon monoxide, I have found two sources that contradict that assertion. Catalytic Converters became mandatory on US cars begining with the 1975 model year and UK cars with the 1993 model year. The first source is from the US Environmental Protection Administration. On the link (below) they explain the goal of reducing CO emissions from autos by catalytic converters. They state that "Today's passenger cars are capable of emitting 90 percent less carbon monoxide over their lifetimes than their uncontrolled counterparts of the 1960's." Sounds like they're doing something there, huh? Let me explain. Over the projected life of a modern car the total CO produced may be a little more than half the total CO produced a 1960's car. What does this have to do with catalytic converters? First check the EPA site, then I'll direct you to a more specific and detailed site. http://www.epa.gov/OMSWWW/03-co.htm Wayne State University School of Medicine has a site called the Carbon Monoxide Headquarters. It's a very informative site, here's the address for the home page: http://www.phymac.med.wayne.edu/FacultyProfile/penney/COHQ/co1.htm Following the links from the home page will give you information such as, US vehicles with catalytic converters produce about the same amount of CO exhaust before a tune up as vehicles without catalytic converters produce after a tune up. This link shows just how long it takes to develop lethal levels of CO in vehicles with catalytic converters. Depending upon the efficiency of the combustion it takes up to 16 minutes. There are many variables, check out the site: http://www.phymac.med.wayne.edu/FacultyProfile/penney/COHQ/COMotoVeh/cosuicide3.htm and they have a very pretty picture illustrating CO concentrations in cars, when used for suicide at this site: http://www.phymac.med.wayne.edu/FacultyProfile/penney/COHQ/COMotoVeh/cosuicide2.htm You can also follow links from the home page for informtion on charcoal briquets (much more lethal than I would have guessed) and other sources of CO. To sum up, I WAS WRONG, I was wrong when I said that catalytic converters are not designed to reduce carbon monoxide emissions, but CO from car exhaust is an effective means of committing suicide. Running the engine out of tune, defeating the oxygen sensor, setting the choke to "on", making the fuel/air mixture richer, using this method during cold or moist weather or just waiting a few extra minutes will all compensate for the marginal effect of the catalytic converter. In my defense, I will say that NONE of the sites I found by searching "catalytic converters" said that they reduce anything but oxides of nitrogen, but I apologize to all for my prior, innacurate postings. I do feel bad about giving out innaccurate information and I will try and do more research on defeating the oxygen sensor and adjusting the mix in vehicles with fuel injection. --------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: "Doug Jacobson" Subject: Re: Cars and CO Date: 20 Jun 98 19:43:08 -0400 On Sat, Jun 20, 1998 6:54 PM, fader68@my-dejanews.com wrote: > Would a '95 Civic Lx create a sufficient amount of CO, if > the exhaust were directed into the car or a small room? > > If not, what make/model would? Any car would produce the necessary CO, the only question is how long would it take. You can speed it up by making the mixture richer and by defeating the oxygen sensor. An easy way to test things is by buying a $30 carbon monoxide detector and reading the documentation to see what concentration it alerts at. Test your system, wait for the alert, then do the math to figure how long it would take you to get to the desired level. Here are some links you can use to compute lethal levels, the bottom line is that a concentration of 6400 parts per million will kill in 25 minutes. You might also consider other sources of CO. http://www.phymac.med.wayne.edu/FacultyProfile/penney/COHQ/co1.htm http://www.freenet.msp.mn.us/people/guestb/pubed/cofaq.html http://www.phymac.med.wayne.edu/FacultyProfile/penney/COHQ/COMotoVeh/cosuicide3.htm http://www.phymac.med.wayne.edu/FacultyProfile/penney/COHQ/COMotoVeh/cosuicide2.htm --------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday,alt.suicide.methods From: Noyen Subject: Re: CO poisoning from Coleman stove? Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 16:30:34 GMT > Would it be possible to achieve lethal carbon > monoxide concentrations using a propane > camping stove inside of a small tent or closet? Propane burns too clean. It would take quite a while to build up sufficient CO. May I suggest a Hibachi grill, with charcoal brouquets? That will work very fasy. The more air tight the better. Tent may not work. Closet may get hot. Try a small outdoor shed, a large car, or a small camper. --------------------------------------------------- B. ASPHYXIATION/SUFFOCATION 1. Constriction a. Leather Strap b. Rope c. Wire --------------------------------------------------- 2. Oxygen Displacement To: alt.suicide.holiday From: bill lippencott@omserver2.cv.hp.com (bill) Date: 23 Aug 1997 07:40:44 GMT >>can someone tell me where to get a mask (for >>connection to nitrogen tank)? In California I lived near a medical supply store. They sold oxygen tanks and I suppose would include masks of different types. Want a free one? They look like a baseball cup with a few slight modifications. Even for the final act I'd get a new one... You could also cut a gallon plastic milk jug diagonally across the corner and tape your hose to it and around your head. ------------------------------------------------------ a. Ether from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm Ether has high solubility in blood and induces anesthesia slowly, is irritating to the eyes and nose, and poses serious risks associated with its flammability. Ether is flammable and explosive and should not be used near an open flame or other ignition sources. Explosions have occurred when animals, euthanatized with ether, were placed in an ordinary (not explosion proof) refrigerator or freezer and when bagged animals were placed in an incinerator. ------------------------------------------------------ To: alc.suicide,alt.suicide.finals,alt.suicide.holiday From: dr@ripco.com (David Richards) Date: 7 Sep 1997 06:57:03 GMT >>I am pretty sure that If done correctly that this >>would be a very easy any Painless way to Go Out. >>I have done some experimenting with it and I Think >>that it will work quite well. All that is needed >>is a plastic bag the size of a tall kitchen trash >>bag or a little larger, A large Rubber Band ( one >>that is big enough to go over your head but still >>be fairly tight around your neck), and a can of >>engine starting fluid (Ether). How pure is the ether in "engine starting fluid"? I would not be suprised if it was adulterated to prevent 'huffing'. >>The Rubber Band is Placed around the openong of >>the plastic bag. With the band in place around >>the opening of the bag. Squrt a fairly large >>quantity of the ether into the bag. You might consider soaking the ether into a rag rather than just pouring it on to the bag. Also consider that ether is a powerful solvent- it'd be pretty shitty to wake up with a bad headache and a plastic bag permanently melted on to your face and hair. >> I would prefer to be lieing down dressed as I >>would like to be found. Then Simply slip the >>either filled bag over my head. I beleive that >>the either will put you to sleep rather quickly. >>And once I am asleep, I will suffocate probably >>without even feeling it.?? Comments Please.!! >Yes. > >For one thing, your way will not be painless. Says you. Ether was routinely used for anethesia until the LONG TERM dangers became known. If it can keep you from noticing that your leg is being sawn off, It should be just fine for keeping you from noticing that you are permanently out of oxygen. >First, the ether will corrode your nose walls, >eyes and lungs. >Second, you wont fall asleep before you suffocate. Why don't you grab a can of ether and some plastic bags, then report back to us? >Third, you wont suffocate. You will drown as your >auto-neuro-systems force your lungs to breathe >the ether. True. Perhaps he needs a bigger bag? >Fourth, yor body wont look too good. Bloated, >swollen, and with a horrible twisted grin on your face. Dead bodies seldom do 'look to good' (unless you are a necrophiliac?), the original author didn't ask if this was a method to prodoce a pretty corpse, he asked if it would be _effective_. ----------------------------------------------------- b. Nitrogen/Helium (Inert Gasses) To: alt.suicide.holiday From: Tim DeLaney Subject: Re: ASH TALK ON GASES IN SUICIDE. Round 2. Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 21:51:20 -0400 The subject of physiological effects of inert gases has come up. Accidents in the industry that I have read about suggest that breathing pure nitrogen leads to extremely rapid unconsciousness. One or two breaths effectively purge all the oxygen out of the lungs, and the victim doesn't have time to react. There are probably no warning symptoms, as nitrogen has no physiological effects of its own. One story is that a man entered a large nitrogen tank to clean it, not knowing that it had not been purged with air. He collapsed immediately, and his brother (a fellow worker) attempted to rescue him. Both were found dead of anoxia. I would think that death from nitrogen inhalation would be quick (5-10 min), painless, and uneventful. (No convulsions, no gasping for air, etc). Obviously, I haven't tried it, so I can't say for sure. Helium and argon would be expected to have very similar effects. ----------------------------------------------------- from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm: Nitrogen (N2) [is a] colorless, odorless [gas] that [is] inert, nonflammable, and nonexplosive. Nitrogen comprises 78% of atmospheric air.... Euthanasia is induced by placing the animal in a closed container into which N2 ...is rapidly introduced or prefilled at atmospheric pressure. Nitrogen... displaces oxygen in the container, thus inducing death by hypoxemia. With N2 flowing at a rate of 39% of chamber volume per minute, rats collapsed in approximately 3 minutes and stopped breathing in 5 to 6 minutes. Regardless of flow rate, signs of panic and distress were evident before the rats collapsed and died. ...Quine ...addressed the issue of distress associated with exposure to N2 by removing cats and dogs from the chamber following unconsciousness and allowing them to recover. When these animals were put back into the chamber, they did not appear afraid or apprehensive. Nitrogen [is] readily available as [a] compressed [gas]. Unconsciousness is preceded by hypoxemia and ventilatory stimulation, which may be distressing.... -------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: Randy Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:37:00 -0500 > What exactly is the nitrogen tent method? ...you fill an enclosed space with nitrogen and just sit there. The Nitrogen displaces the CO2 in your lungs, preventing you from feeling what you feel when you hold your breath for a long time. You simply pass out, and die of asphyxiation while you're unconscious. I've heard it's rather pleasant. ----------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: puck31066@aol.com (Puck31066) Date: 26 Aug 1997 12:57:13 GMT >...I have a preferred method, inert gas, but I'm >not sure how I can get hold of a bottle of N2 >(liquid or gas). Any suggestions? Failing that >I may try He instead but I'm not sure how to >handle such a gas. Comments? also my preferred method. any welding supply store. get the 250 cu ft tank. -------------------------------------------------- From: anonymous Intro ----- Method : asphyxiation by inert gas (helium) Certainty : Fairly certain if not 'saved' and you don't chicken out Cost : about #100 (sterling) Obtaining the Helium -------------------- Pick up the yellow pages, look under 'P' for party supplies, ring up some party shops and ask how to obtain helium for filling balloons. Most shops will apologise and say "sorry we don't spply it, try the partysmells shop on such and such a road..." Ringing up is preferable to a personal visit for reasons a) If you are a nervous sort of person like me, then a phone is much better tham a personal call from a "nobody knows who I am" point of view. b) You will find that most party shops don't supply helium, so it's a good idea to ring around. When you find a shop that can supply the helium, they'll ask if you want, a) A cannister for about 20 balloons, b) A tank of gas for about 200 balloons Naturally we'll plump for b). The gas itself will cost about #45, and you must also place a deposit on the cylinder, the deposit will need to be cash (ie not switch card or credit card), and it'll probably be around #50. Fortunately, I'm well off, so money is not a problem here. Note that, the party shops will not usually have any helium to buy "off the shelf", and they may ask you to wait from 1->10 days for some to be delivered. If time is a constraint, then this could be a problem. The gas appears to be "balloon grade" and exceeds 99% purity. The remaining fraction is probably nitrogen, though I've no idea really. Caution : The gas tank is actually quite heavy (about the same as 2 or 3 car batteries), so if you are in any way disabled, you may have trouble with it. _Neighbour : "so what on earth do you want this for..." _You : "Oh, it's for me to gas myself with, would you mind just helping me get it up the stairs please..." Making a Gas mask ----------------- Your first stop should be a trip to the local 'auto spares' shop, or 'Boots', where you can get syphoning tube, or any other suitable flexible tubing. I would recommend a longer piece rather than a shorter one for reasons a) The gas is quite cold when it comes out of the tank, and a long tube will give it a chance to warm up by a couple of degrees. b) If you use a very long tube, there's a slight chance you may get tangled up in it, and accidently trip over and choke yourself do death on it. c) You can always make a long piece shorter if you're not happy with it. about 3 metres should be plenty, and will cost under #1 per metre. Next stop - The supermarket. Buy a tub of "I can't beleive it's not butter". Not the very small tubs, but the next size up. If you remember when you were a kid, you stick a glass over your mouth, and suck, and the glass sticks. We will use the same principle with the butter tub. Hence you want to get one which will fit under your chin, over your mouth and up to the bridge of your nose. Any container of about this size will do, however I would recommend the use of "I can't beleive it's not butter", "Utterly Butterly", or "Clover", as they come in quite strong plastic tubs, unlike "Flora" or "Happy shopper own brand margi-muck", which have thin plastic, which will probably crack or split when being cut. Treat yourself to a slap-up meal of toast and butter, and then give the butter-tub a good cleaning, unless you are a girl, in which case you probably like having oily slimy stuff all over your face, (contains active lipobuttersomes - in scientific tests 8 out of 10 phlegm weevils got younger when they used it - etc etc). NB : I don't want anyone else to use an "I can't beleive it's not butter" tub, as I want to be the first person to kill myself using one. That would be an achievment worthy of some praise. Fit the tub over your mouth, you'll find that your nose gets in the way, and prevents an air-tight fit. Use a sharp knife (e.g. stanley knife), to cut a small indentation where your nose goes. Make lots of small cuts, rather than one big one, because you're less likely to make a serious bodge. When the tub fits snugly over your mouth, you should be able to hold it there by sucking in. It doesn't matter if it isn't a perfect air-tight fit, because the helium gas will fill the mask easily, and as long as the %Oxygen is kept low, then a little air getting in won't matter. If the helium pressure is sufficiently strong, it'll force out any air anyway. Next - get some long elastic bands. Find a sharp object about the size and shape of a knitting needle, and puncture a hole in the sides of the tub on each side, about in line with where your ears are. I found that heating a knitting needle and punching a small hole made a clean edge. Chain two or three long elastic bands together, and push one end through the hole. Once it's through, pull enough through the hole to let you tie a large knot in the elastic band, and then pull the band back through. The elastic band should now be held firmly to the tub. Repeat this procedure on the other side. And you can now place the tub over your mouth, and put the elastic bands around the head. Adjust the tightness (by tieing knots in the elastic band, or pulling more throuth the tub holes), so that it fits snugly and comfortably. If you've got the placement just right, the elastic bands can be placed around the ears, and the mask will hold in place very comfortably and easily and will not fall off. Next - Take the tubing, and note how wide it is. On the front of the mask, about in line with the nose or mouth, using the sharp knife, make two incisions about the same diameter as the tubing. Don't cut a hole, just make a cross shaped cut. Now push the tubing through from the inside of the mask, and the cut pieces of plastic will open out and form a flange around the tubing. Pull the tubing through until a small piece is left protruding into the mask, (not too far). Now tape the flanges of plastic to the tubing, and liberally wind more tape around the join until the tubing is firmly held and the seal is air-tight. Next - Tape the free end of the tube to the gas outlet of the helium tank. This may be a problem : because the gas tanks that are supplied for filling balloons, have an unusual outlet. It consists of a spring loaded nozzle, which when bent, opens a valve to allow the gas out. Imagine holding a balloon onto a nozzle and then twisting your wrist upwards, this forces a plunger backwards and releases gas into the balloon, the gas comes out rather quickly, filling the balloon in a matter of seconds. When the nozzle is released, the spring forces the nozzle back to the horizontal position, and the metal plunger slides back against a stop, cutting off the gas flow. There is a master valve on the top of the cylinder too, but it doesn't allow for much flow regulation. This odd nozzle arrangement can act for and against us. I ought to point out, that I have managed to get (through work), a proper gas regulator valve, so I've replaced the one on my cylinder, but I did some experimentation with the spring loaded nozzle version first. If you tape the tubing to the nozzle, and then connect some more elastic bands between the nozzle end and a sturdy object (like the cylinder handle), you can make a nice "dead mans handle" - ie, when you let go of the nozzle, the elastic band pulls the nozzle upwards, and releases gas. This means that you can hold the nozzle in a position which just lets enough gas out, into the mask, and causes you to lose conciousness, when you pass out, your hand will release the nozzle, and the elastic band will open it up even more, thus increasing the gas flow, and ensuring that you don't get any air. Experimentation has shown this to be quite a good little system. NB : don't be tempted to remove the nozzle, and then open the master valve, the gas comes out at a tremendous speed, and will make the most amazing noise, and make you jump right out of your skin (it will also blow any paperwork on your desk/floor etc all around the room). Only open the master valve, when you have a suitable regulator or nozzle in place (hey! you might get yourself killed). The hard bit - Gassing yourself. -------------------------------- The fact that I'm writing this, is evidence enough that I'm a chicken and haven't succeeded in killing myself yet. I've no particular reason to die, just bored with life, so there is no urgency on my part, and one day I'll go through with it. However I can tell you what you will feel using the inert gas method, and I can reassure you that it is not painful. The 'Bag over the head' method causes the build up of CO2 and the body reacts with gasping, rapid pulse, and general panic (I've tried it), the inert gas method, simply replaces the air with an inert atmosphere, denuded of oxygen, and the body has no 'learned' response to this. Once you have the mask in place and the gas flowing (I'd advise tunring the gas on first, arranging your valve regulation, and then putting on the mask, because the first gush of gas, can be a bit violent, and might feel unpleasant), all you have to do is breathe normally. When you breathe the gas in pure, you'll notice that it is a) quite cold, but not too unpleasant (long tube may help) b) essentially odourless, though it smells different from room air. c) makes your voice squeaky, try singing as you die. After maybe three long slow breaths, you may notice a slight increase in your heart rate. I can only speculate about this a) caused by the body saying "more oxygen please" b) anxiety - after all you are trying to kill yourself c) some trace material in the gas (unlikely) d) insert better reason here I found that the momentary racing heart, passed quickly, and I conclude that it was caused by anxiety (on successive experiments, I've found the effect to be less pronounced). After about thirty seconds you will start to feel pressure in your head. Not really, but if you have stood up quickly, and feel dizzy, you'll know that there's a stange feeling 'inside' your head. This has been explained to me by a colleague, as probably being caused by the blood vessels in the head expanding to increase the blood flow and try to keep oxygen levels up. After a few more seconds, you'll start to feel yourself black out. I was unable to verify exactly what you 'see' because my gas mask, comes just up to my eyes, so I keep them shut, whilst doing this. However on previous experiments, just breathing directly from the tube, I've found that your vision starts to go black around the edges, and is entirely consistent with symptoms caused by low oxygen. At this point on all attempts, I have removed the mask, and prayed that an aircraft would crash land on my house and spare me having to do this any more. Conclusions ----------- Keeping the mask on for a few more seconds, would almost certainly have resulted in blackout, having the gas mask in place, would have meant a continued period without oxygen, and eventual death, under these circumstances - within a few minutes. The entire process seems to be essentially painless. You will feel yourself blacking out, and this causes me some panic, and hence that abortion of the operation, but I beleive persons with a stronger will should have no difficulty in carrying the plan through to terminus. (The person who initially suggested the use of helium to me, has not contacted me for some time, and since I have only an email address, I cannot ascertain why, but is quite possibly dead from this method). Side effects : To date I have nearly succeeded on several attempts, and have suffered no (known) long term effects. Since people can black out, from standing up too quickly : The air force G-Test pilots by whirling them around in centrifuges, and drawing the blood away from the head until blackout : and blackouts can be caused by numerous other means, I beleive that if oxygen is restored quickly, then the 'aborted operation' should be fairly safe. Pros of the method : It appears to be painless, and can be carried out in the comfort of your own home, at your own pace, allowing the opportunity to get comfortable, have a last drink, put your favourite record on etc etc. Definitely a nice way to go. Cons of the method : If you jump off a tall building, then you just need to make that decision once. Once your feet have left the ledge, you're history, and there's no turning back (assuming a good landing anyway). With the gassing method, you have about a minute to sit there trying to convince yourself that you want to live really, and it's very hard to quiet those demons. I would dearly love to get my hands on some nitrous oxide, as this would have an anaesthetizing effect, whilst acheiving the asphyxiation. --------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: Hermotimus Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 09:26:54 -0500 I have some problems with using helium or nitrogen with the garbage-bag-rubber-band method. Mainly, I wonder about gas buildup: you open the valve on your gas cylinder, hold the end of the hose from the tank up by your face, pull the garbage bag over your head, and snap the rubber bands in place around your neck (all while sedated and/or drunk, to suppress any panic reaction). Assuming you get a nice, tight fit with the rubber bands over the bunched-up plastic band at your neck, the bag inflates quickly with the inert gas and you rapidly pass out. Then what? The gas keeps pouring into the bag, with no way out; is the bag eventually going to rupture at a seam, or snap rubber bands? Will that happen (in a worst case scenario) *after* brain damage has occured, but *before* death? I can think of ways to stop the gas flow, or vent the gas, but they're complicated (and that increases the risk of failure). I think the nitrogen tent method deals with these problems, and it's also, imho, a more comfortable exit. I pieced together my tent with heavy (4 mil.) plastic sheeting, taped over a box, but I have worked out a simpler method: Buy a heavy-duty trash bin liner, the kind intended for 50-55gal. drums, used as trash cans at parks, sporting arenas, etc.. These are larger than usual garbage bags, are usually transparent, and are made out of a stronger plastic (similar to that used for plastic grocery bags). They can be purchased at a good hardware store or janitorial supply store. Get a sturdy cardboard box, large enough to acomodate your head (and maybe your shoulds - to be comfortable), but not too large to fit inside the trash bin liner. Place the box inside the bag (I'd place a pillow inside the box, first). This is your "tent." Place the tent on a bed, with the open end of the bag (and box) pointed toward the foot of the bed. Run a hose from the nitrogen or helium gas cylinder up inside the bag, into the box. Place a HEAVY blanket or quilt over the open end of the bag, overlapping the end by several inches. It's important that it be heavy, because this is the seal - it will allow excess gas to vent out, while preventing fresh air from seaping back in. Use duct tape to tape the edge of the blanket to the bag. The tent is ready to go. Open the valve on the gas cylinder's pressure regulator, sending gas into the tent. Take a deep breath and slide up from the foot of the bed, under the blanket and into the tent, and lie with your head inside the box as the tent is flooded with nitrogen or helium. TECHNICAL DETAILS (sort of): The goal is to get the oxygen levels inside the tent below 6%, and to keep it down long enough for brain death to occur. [ed. note: there are easily-procured analysis machines which would indicate the oxygen level.] At atmospeheric oxygen levels of 4-6%, coma ocurs in 40 seconds, followed by convulsions, respiratory arrest and death, according to Safety Bulletin SB-2 from the Compressed Gas Association http://www.cganet.com/pubs/free/sb-2.htm Nitrogen is available from welding supply stores; common cylinder sizes are 75, 150, 250 cubic feet. The tanks and regulators can be purchased or rented (the cost is about the same either way). You WILL need a pressure regulator, to reliably control the rate of flow of gas into the tent. I was advised by a compressed gas expert (I won't mention him by name, but thanks!) to use a flow rate of 10 cu. ft. per minute in my 4.5 cu.ft. tent; I think a somewhat lower rate would be fine, and would give me a longer flow (that's not important with a 150 or 250 cu. ft. tank, but might be with a smaller tank). In animal euthanasia tests, the flow rate was reported as approx. 40% of the volume of the compartment per minute - do the math for your own tent. Is it painful or unpleasant? Nitrogen asphyxiation has been recommended as the ultimate humane method for criminal executions - "Killing With Kindness," by Stuart A. Creque, *National Review,* Sept. 11, 1995, describes a couple of accidental nitrogen asphyxiations, in which the victims apperantly never realized what was happening. In animal euthanasia experiments, hyperventilation prior to loss of consciousness was reported, which might be distressing, and muscular tremors, convulsions and "vocalizations" after loss of consciousness. http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/pubs/noawicpubs/avmaeuth.htm I have run a couple of tests with my tent: First, I have lain in the tent, just to see how long/if CO2 buildup would occur. I was able to stay inside my 4.5 cu. ft. tent for up to 45 minutes, before my breathing became so labored that it was uncomfortable (distracting, really). It also got rather warm inside the tent, especially with a heavy quilt on it, and there was a considerable buildup of moisture on the inside of the tent, from my respiration. Not really bothersome, given the short time I'll be in it (alive, anyway) when I use it. I also tested the tent by placing two lit votive candles inside, placing a small, low-pressure (7.5 cu.ft.) cannister of helium for party balloons inside, and opening the valve. The candles dimmned and went out in approximately 90 seconds. I later vented the remainder of the small helium tank into the tent while I was in it - enough to raise the pitch of my voice, but not to even make me light-headed. One shortcoming of these tests was that I had no way to accurately judge how much helium had actually been put into the tent, and another is that I do not know whether the oxygen levels necesary to support combustion by the candles is as low as that necesary to remain alive. I do not think the small canisters of helium sold for filling 25-30 party balloons are sufficient to "safely" carry out this method; the larger tanks should be used. --------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: coffee Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:41:56 -0700 > I have some problems with using helium or nitrogen with > about gas buildup.... you have slightly different ideas than I. I would simply fill the garbage bag up with helium, while keepiung it closed, stop the influx of gas, then put it over the head, and duct tape it on (actually, before putting it over my head, I'd start the oxygen dep. with some nitrous). This way, you don't have to worry about pressures changing and what not. As helium rises nicely, one should be able to not lose much helium while putting it over ones head, and with a good exhale before putting it on, hopefully the CO2 should not be a problem. ...I think that a couple of the smaller containers would be fine for the solo garbage bag. However, your idea seems quite thought out and workable, merely requiring a larger expenditure of effort and money. I think that both are about as likely to work (I plan on sometime buying a garbage bag and testing about how long that I can breath in it before CO2 build up becomes a problem (altho I'm guessing it would take longer without a temporary source of O2, and thus continued respiration) tho I'd imagine that it would take at least 15 minutes for a decently sized garbage bag). --------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: Hermotimus Subject: Re: ASH TALK ON GASES IN SUICIDE. Round 2. Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 21:11:35 -0500 > I guess that releasing the helium or nitrogen into > the cabin of a vehicle wouldn't work, or would it? > The volume of the cabin is probably far too large > to be flooded by the gas completely, but wouldn't > it be sufficient if the gas would displace the > oxygen in the upper part (the head part) of the > cabin? It could be enough - one of the accidental nitrogen asphyxiations described in the *National Review* article involved two men who stole what they thought was a canister of nitrous oxide from a hospital. They opened the cylinder inside their car and were asphyxiated sitting comfortably, waiting for the laughing gas to take effect (this was pointed to illustrate that, had they experienced any discomfort, all either man had to do was roll down a window). I don't know what size tank they stole - maybe a large 250 cu. ft. cylinder. --------------------------------------------------------- From: "Geo Stone" Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday Subject: Re: ASH TALK ON GASES IN SUICIDE. Round 2. Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 01:28:06 -0400 > > >However there was a suggestion about utilizing > > >a tube tent. How do we go from there to an > > >exact method holding all the parameters in the > > >correct range for not risking a failed suicide ? > > > > I think the posts by Hermotimus you quoted go > > into pretty good detail. > > > > > ...what is a tube tent ? > > > > ...I think I know what a tube tent is, but I'm > > not sure (I'm not really an outdoor/camper > > person to begin with). > > > > >- what size gas cylinder related to the size of the tent ? > > > > Geo Stone's method talks about flushing the tent > > once, and then sealing its ends. So a small > > (or smallest) cylinder should be sufficient. > > > > >- how do we know that we have the level of oxygen > > > low enough at sufficient amount of time. > > > > Again I think that Hermotimus idea is better than > > Geo Stones tube tent. If you just flush the > > cylinder inside the tent, heck, what about the > > pressure build up in the tent? > > ...i dont share the trust in Herms small tent > method. I appreciate Herms knowledgeable research > but the one point I dont agree with Herm is the > risk for screwing up the method by convulsions. > The muscular strength in convulsions i imagine could > be very strong and therefore i personally do not > feel Herms method is reliable. That is just my > impression. In a tent however I feel that one > could have ones convulsions pretty free without > risking to rupture the tent. Even more in a car > i guess. > > I recall that we must be at 75% concentration or > above and for sufficient amount of time, according > to Stones chapter on gases. How would we be sure > of that ? Maybe it is obvious to a gas expert that > one would be, but i dont feel certain at this stage. > I recall that oxygen has a tendency to leak into > any space from which you take it away and i dont > know how strong or quick this happens. > > Herms posting about the two guys in the truck was > very interesting. We should be at a very > interesting suicide-method here if it is correct > that they were so peacefully put to sleep. We dont > know what these guys had premedicated with though. > I mean they could have been on some street drugs > as well as they sat down to enjoy the laughing gas. > > By the way how do we really know they were not out > to suicide ? If they would have had laughing gas > that would have caused the same end result i > assume, since that must be another form of oxygen > suppression. This they should have also been able > to figure. However i dont hold it unlikely that they > were just out for a rush on laughing gas but how > does anyone know ? Any clues in the article Herm ? Re: tube tents. Mea culpa---thought they were common knowledge; obviously I was wrong. Anyhow, these are cylindrical plastic bags, open at both ends, that are used as emergency tents by backpackers. They're flimsy (about like thick trash bags), airtight, and thus not very good for keeping dry (due to condensation), but they are light and cheap ($5-10). Since there is generally a rope running its length and keeping it from falling, and a person on the bottom, the approximate shape (in use) is triangular. If the tube tent is 8 feet [244 cm] long and has a diameter of 4 feet [122 cm] the triangular volume is about 55 cubic feet [1.5 cubic meters] or about 400 gallons. Hermotimus made the valid point that you want to vent surplus gas without tearing the bag/tent and that a rug over the tent was a reasonable way to achieve this. The problem is that since the standard tube tent is only 8 feet long, there may not be sufficient room for a person to stretch out and still have enough bag at either end to fold over with a rug flap. A couple of possible work-arounds are (1) two tube tents (end-to-end) attached by duct tape; (2) cut a hole near the top of one side of the tube tent, and make a weighted flap that vents excess gas and then falls back in place. Gravity should work fine, but I haven't tried this and you may want to experiment with petroleum jelly (Vaseline) or velcro to make a better seal. Re: deaths due to nitrogen on airplanes (and elsewhere). The point has nothing to do with airplanes per se, or the circumstances under which nitrogen was mistakenly used. The point (consistent with other accidental human deaths, as well as intentional animal deaths) is that nitrogen asphyxia seems to be a very low-trauma way to go. --------------------------------------------------------- c. Carbon Dioxide (CO2) from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm At concentrations of 30% to 40% CO2 in oxygen, anesthesia was induced within 1 to 2 minutes, usually without struggling, retching, or vomiting. ...In cats, inhalation of 60% CO2 results in loss of consciousness within 45 seconds, and respiratory arrest within 5 minutes. Several investigators have suggested that inhalation of high concentrations of CO2 may be distressing to animals because of mucosal irritation and ventilatory stimulation. However, the degree of distress appears to be mild, and it is unlikely that it is any more than inhalation of volatile anesthetics.... Carbon dioxide is used for preslaughter anesthesia of swine. The undesirable side effect of CO2, as used in commercial slaughterhouses, is that swine experience a stage of excitement with vocalization for about 40 seconds before they lose consciousness. For that reason, CO2 preslaughter anesthesia may appear less humane than other techniques. Carbon dioxide may be purchased ...in solid state as "dry ice." ...is inexpensive, nonflammable, and nonexplosive.... ... does not result in accumulation of tissue residues in food producing animals. ...does not distort cellular architecture. Because CO2 is heavier than air, incomplete filling of a chamber may permit tall or climbing animals to avoid exposure and to survive. This appears to be very distressful to the animals. Some species may have extraordinary tolerance for CO2. Compressed CO2 gas in cylinders is preferable to dry ice because the inflow to the chamber can be regulated precisely. If dry ice is used, animal contact must be avoided to prevent freezing or chilling. Carbon dioxide generated by other methods such as from a fire extinguisher or from chemical means (eg, Alka-Seltzer) are unacceptable. With an animal in the chamber, an optimal flow rate should displace at least 20% of the chamber volume per minute. Unconsciousness may be induced more rapidly by exposing animals to a CO2 concentration of 70% or more by prefilling the chamber. It is important to verify that an animal is dead before removing it from the chamber. If an animal is not dead, CO2 narcosis must be followed with another method of euthanasia. Larger animals, such as rabbits, cats, and swine, appear to be more distressed by CO2 euthanasia; therefore, other methods of euthanasia are preferable. ------------------------------------------------------------ d. Nitrous Oxide (N2O) from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm: Nitrous oxide (N2O) may be used with the other inhalants to speed the onset of anesthesia, but it alone does not induce anesthesia in animals, even at 100% concentration. If N2O is used as a sole euthanasia agent, hypoxemia develops before respiratory or cardiac arrest, and animals may become distressed prior to unconsciousness. Nitrous oxide will support combustion. --------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: "Randy Meador hotmail.com"> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 14:44:05 -0500 >...i would like to go to pure nitrous oxide (dentist >stuff/laughing gas)....where can a tank be obtained? >legally or not. It's legal, but most companies will not sell tanks of it to a residential address unless there is a _damn_ good excuse given. You can get compressed gasses (CO2 and N2) at the URL at the bottom, and can make arrangements with the same company to have them filled with just about anything under the sun (including nitrous). Incidentally, you can also order the Nitrous chargers (box's of 24) at the same place. Probably a lot cheaper than buying them at a head shop, or speciality cooking store. -------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: _nospam_faithless_nospam_@psu.edu (Faithless One) >I don't know about a tank, but I've thought about just >getting a bunch of 'whippets', filling a plastic trash >bag with them, and sealing my head inside the bag. >'Whippets' are available here at 'head shops' for about >$52 for 5 boxes, 24 in each box. Each Whippet is about >one lungful, so I think 5 boxes would fill a trash bag. ------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: nathan.s@ix.netcom.com Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 02:35:23 +0000 >> Hang out with drag racers (as in fast cars) for a >> little while and you can learn all you'd ever >> want to know about Nitrous. Summit Auto sells >> $$$ kits with a filled 10Lb bottle by mail order >> (extra $10 UPS hazardous material fee) and with >> a little hunting you might find a mail order >> outfit that will ship just the filled bottle >> without the associated kit. > > I reccomend you all read some of the rec.drugs > info on N20, the stuff they use in cars is > "auto grade" while whippets and the stuff from > the dentist are "medical/food grade", apparently > the auto stuff has a fair but of sulpher > "rotten egg" gas in it, so it'll probably just > make you sick. > >> Whippets would require a _lot_ of money and a >> _lot_ of effort to accumulate any quantity of >> the gas. If you're an adult it's not that hard >> to get full tanks of compressed inert gas. > > Disagree here, a pack of whippets is like only > $5, and provides at least enough for "an evenings > entertainment". Nitrous Oxide is also used by taxidermists when preparing an animal. Some taxidermist shops will fill a tank for you. One near my old house would do it for about $3 a pound. ------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: Randy Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:37:00 -0500 > What exactly is the nitrogen tent method? ...you fill an enclosed space with nitrogen and just sit there. The Nitrogen displaces the CO2 in your lungs, preventing you from feeling what you feel when you hold your breath for a long time. You simply pass out, and die of asphyxiation while you're unconscious. I've heard it's rather pleasant. Ideally, you should use N20 (Nitrous Oxide) to act as an anesthetic. If you've ever done "whippits", you'll know what I'm talking about. This has been hashed over before, but try to locate surgical grade nitrous... The stuff used in Automobiles isn't required to pass quality standards for use in humans. N20 can be purchased in large canisters (by the lb) from welding supply stores and compressed air manufacturers. (like ISI) http://www.isi.co.at/main_e.htm While there is nothing illegal about N20, the places that sell it know what it can be used for (other than suicide, it can be inhaled for a 30 second high.) and hesitate to sell it to residential areas. Unless there is a good story involved, that is. ----------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: Randy Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:52:34 -0500 re whippets: > I'm pretty sure that there's CO2 in those bottles And I'm pretty sure that you're wrong. I'm sorry, but the "chargers" used to fill whipped cream canisters are filled with Nitrous Oxide. Now, the little canisters that work with your air rifle are filled with CO2; they look alike, but they are filled with different gases. Try inhaling the contents of a whipped cream charger sometime and report back to us; if it gives you a minute high, than it's N2O, if not, it's CO2. I can tell you right now, though, if you bought it at a cooking supply store, for whipping cream utensils, it's filled with Nitrous. Oh, and BTW- don't inhale the gas directly from the chargers; it's compressed, and when it comes out it's *very* cold. We're talking hypothermia/freeze a lip off cold. ----------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.methods From: faceonmars@aol.commit-it (FaceOnMars) Subject: Re: Laughing Gas . Date: 2 Jun 1999 19:18:03 GMT High performance cars use "NO" gas, reffered to as simply "Nitriss" by many of the slack-jawed auto racers. This is used in conjuction with regular fuel delivery to the carburator or fuel injection system. It can only be used in small bursts, controlled by the driver. Simply put, it makes the car go faster. Usually an entire 2 seconds off the car's estimated time in a quarter mile run. ----------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.methods From: Enesha Fairluck Subject: Re: Laughing Gas Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 03:04:10 -0400 filename="NITROUS.TXT" Making Nitrous Oxide from Tele-Theif Express original file from Z. DeBuggah from Folo Zone 416/283-1854 Making Lauging Gas/Whip-its/Nirous Oxide/etc. --------------------------------------------- WHAT YOU NEED: -------------- o Ammonium Nitrate (NH4NO3) - get a good grade, it's a fertilizer and comes in 50lb. bags. Also available from lab supply companies like VW&R or American Scientific at a much greater cost. o Clean sand. Fairly fine grained (30 mesh or finer.) If you collect your and you get fresh water sand, it will be necessary to wash it thoroughly with water then dry it before using. You must also wash the sand before reusing it. o Electric hot plate (500 to 2500 watt) with variable heat. o Stainless steel dial thermometer. (This is the only metal item which may be used.) It must go to 250 C (450 F). Select the Erlenmeyer flask (next item) and the thermometer so that the thermometer can reach at least within 1/16" of the bottom of the flask through the stopper. o A 2000 to 4000 ml PYREX or KIMAX Erlenmeyer flask. o Several feet of 3/8" clear vinyl or surgical rubber tubing. o At least 4 8mm ID glass or plastic tubing "T's". o 1 120 degree bend 8mm ID PYREX glass elbow, with about 3" of tubing on each side of the bend. o 7 6-8" long pieces of 8mm ID glass or plastic tubing. o 3 6-8 feet long 1.5" to 2" diameter glass or clear plastic pipes. o 1 two hole rubber or neoprene stopper to fit the top of the Erlenmeyer flask. One hole should fit the 8mm ID PYREX glass elbow, and the other hole should fit the stainless steel dial thermometer. o 6 one hole rubber or neoprene stoppers that will fit the ends of the clear plastic or glass pipes. The holes in the stoppers must fit the straight 8mm ID glass or plastic tubes. NH NO ----------------------> N O + 2*H O 4 3 2 2 Ammonium nitrous two = Nitrate oxide water Set-up ------ If you've gotten this far - remember - you MUST meet the exact quiality specifications of the equipment list. If you really want a do-it-yourself nitrous oxide generator, you want a sturdy set-up you can over and over and enjoy again and again! See IFF files included for the diagram of the set-up. Assembly -------- NOTE: When inserting tubing through stopper holes, ALWAYS WRAP AND HOLD = THE TUBING WITH A CLOTH. Also moisten the tip of the tubing and the stopper hole with glycerin, soap, or spit. (never oil) 1> Into the stopper with two holes, inset the thermometer far enough so that when the stopper is put into the Erlenmeyer flask, it almost touches the bottom of the flask (but don't allow it to touch), and then insert one end of the glass elbow far enough through the stopper so that it sticks out 1/4" to 1/2". 2> Into the six one-hole stoppers, insert a piece of the 8mm ID glass (or plastic) tubing so that 1/2" to 3/4" protrudes from the narrow end of the stopper. 3> Now select your set-up space so that there is 1.5 feet of space clear in all directions around the hotplate, so that the three scrubber pipes can lie side by side where they will not be knocked over. 4> Take approximately 2 feet of the 3/8" flexible tubing and connect one end to the glass elbow in the two-hole stopper, and the other end to the middle of one of the 8mm ID glass (or hard plastic) "T's". 5> With short pieces (select lengths for a neat fit) of 3/8" tubing and another 8mm "T" assemble the INLET SET manifold and connect it to the bottom end of the scrubbers. Stoppers may then be inserted into the lower end of the scrubber pipes. 6> Elevate the OUT end of the scrubber pipes so that the upper end is 6" to 8" above the IN end, but no more, and then fill the pipes with water until they are full within 4" to 8" of the top (outlet) end, and insert the outlet stoppers. Try to fill all the scrubbers equally full. 7> With short pieces of 3/8" tubing and two 8mm ID "T's", prepare and connect the OUTLET SET manifold to the scrubbers similar to the way the set was connected in step 5. 8> To the last "T" of the OUTLET SET (of "T's" manifold), connect a fairly long piece of 3/8" tubing to reach a "safe" location (where connection and disconnection of the receiver bags will not disturb the scrubbers) and secure it. Then put the last piece of 8mm ID hard tubing into the free end. 9> Finally, prepare several receiever bags by inserting about an 8" piece of tubing into the top so that 3" or 4" sticks out of the bag and secure it in place with a rubber band. => > > > > > > > > CONGRATULATIONS < < < < < < < < <= You are now the proud owner of your very own Nitrous Oxide Generator. Operation --------- First, prepare a quantity of a mixture containing 1/3 sand and 2/3 ammonium nitrate. Then pour enough of the mixture into the erlenmeyer flask to give 1.5" to 2" in the bottom of the flask. Put the flask onto the hotplate, and insert the two-hole stopper, firmly but not too tight. <> --BUT-- WARNING-WARNING-WARNING-WARNING-WARNING-WARNING-WARNING ! W Once the heating of the mixture in the erlenmeyer A flask has started you MUST REMOVE the two-hole R stopper from the flask before turning off the heat. N Otherwise as the flask starts to cool off, it will I draw water from the scrubbers back into the hot N flask and may crack or EXPLODE the erlenmeyer flask G with the steam formed inside. ! WARNING-WARNING-WARNING-WARNING-WARNING-WARNING-WARNING Now you may begin heating the flask. Turn the hotplate to medium or medium-high and watch the thermometer. If the temperature climbs very fast, turn the hotplate down, but be patient about turning it up. Occasional bubbles will be noted going through the scrubbers as the air in the system expands. At 210 C (410 F) a yellowish to orange-brown will begin filling the flask, and the bubbling throught the scrubbers will become steady. At this time, adjust the upper end heights of the scrubber tubes so that each one gets about the same amount of gas passing through it. Keep your eye on the temperature, and it should not climb much over the 210-220 C (410-430 F) marks. Also the gas at the top of the scrubbers MUST BE PERFECTLY COLORLESS! Otherwise, turn down the heat setting. If the gas flow is too low to give a steady flow through all three scrubbers, increase the heat slightly. Once you've run your system a time or two, you'll know what your operating settings are. As soon as the gas flow is steady and clean, connect a receiving bag to the final outlet tube, and allow the bag to fill. It may be necessary to add more amonium nitrate-sand mixture to the flask from time to time -- wear gloves as the flask will be HOT when removing the stopper. It is also a good idea to turn off the hotplate while the stopper is out of the flask. Once you've filled a few bags with laughing gas, you're ready to try some.... ----------------------------------------------------- e. Water/Drowning (H2O) To: alt.suicide.holiday From: wgoff1 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:38:56 -0400 >>...could a person drink themselves to death with water >>or would they throw up first? And if it is possible >>to die this way, is it painful? And how long would >>it take? Thanks. > > Yes, it can actually happen. I have seen a notice > in a swedish paper about this happening once. I also > think Calle wrote about it in the old methods file. > > What happens is that you upset the osmotic balance > in your system, and your cells in the body will > cease to work, or work a lot less efficiently. > > I do not remember how much water you have to drink, > and during what period of time, but I am sure it is > a considerable amount. > > I would not recommend it though. What you are describing is called psychogenic polydipsia which is xs water drinking. The chemical change in your blood is a dilutional state with a low sodium level (hyponatremia). In order to lower your sodium levels critically you must make a massve effort and a poor kidney response. The sodium gradient between the brain and blood is such that seizures and confusion occurs. Permanent brain damage may follow if you don't die. I feel the risk of suffering after/during the attempt is not worth it unless you are masochistic and wish to suffer maximally to reflect your miserable existence. ------------------------------------------------ From: anonymous Subject: Suffocation Possibilities Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 13:13:35 -0800 (PST) RE intentional drowning: It depends on if you are holding yourself underwater or something else is. The context sounds like we're talking about very small bodies of water such as a tub. While people do drown in tubs it's usually because they are unconscious (not drunk) first. If one is serious about drowning though, one probably should choose a much large water source such as a lake or an ocean. (Though as Hermotimus has pointed out on ash, salt water drowning is more painful.) Then you can either swim out (and don't stop - a tough one) until you are so exhausted that you can no longer hold your head out of the water. Or bring weights (Virgina Woolf put rocks in her pockets) that you can swim with for a while but that would sink you if you stopped swimming. Another variation is to chose a water source that has a current that will carry you out past the point you can return (Pacific Ocean being the prime example out here.) ------------------------------------------------ To: alt.suicide.holiday From: Barry Bermingham Subject: Re: Suicide suggestion....??? maybe? Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 21:50:51 +0100 > I was thinking, maybe if you put a few weights on > your feet and arms, and held on to some floats, > to keep you afloat, and then pop double the > dosage of sleeping pills, eventually you become > unconcious, and fall asleep, and will let go sink > to the bottom, and rest in peace.... similar to the way i'm thinking of doing it. seems more likely to work than the plastic bag one. i'd rather be found in a lake by a passer-by than my family at home anyway.... ------------------------------------------------ C. DAMAGE * driving into a cement wall depending on the vehicle and the velocity, this may or may not result in fatality or immediate termination. I suspect that a motorcycle at very high velocity would be the best method of achieving the Motivsplat. * touching the third rail electrocution is uncertain, and could result in some neurological problems if we don't succeed in death. I suspect that taking further steps, such as anti- insulation, something to do with water, maybe carrying big hunks of metal, maybe even transistors or something would assist the Jolt. research into the success of suicidals or accidents appears valuable. * lying down on tracks stupidity factors here. advanced timing of the train, which parts of the body are cut off (people have become parapalegics but not died in such circumstances), whether the suicide is seen (a tunnel would seem excellent, or just 'round a bend in the wilderness), who may be nearby, whether assistance can really be achieved soon afterward, and whether the HEAD is lopped off, would all appear to be factors in the Trainslice. * diving off a tall structure apparently people have survived, upon occasion, very long plummets. sometimes these have been cushioned by foliage or air currents. the higher the structure and the more expert the dive (hitting head-first can be successful from low-altitudes) are the factors here. others may also be if something is below that might cushion the fall, like trees, children, water, etc. water can be like hitting a wall, at times. ------------------------------------------------ from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm: Physical methods of euthanasia include captive bolt, gunshot, cervical dislocation, decapitation, electrocution, ...exsanguination, stunning, or pithing. However, some of these procedures, namely exsanguination, stunning, and pithing, are not recommended as a sole means of euthanasia, but are adjuncts when used in association with other agents or methods. Some consider physical methods of euthanasia aesthetically displeasing. However, some of these methods cause less fear and anxiety, and may be more rapid, painless, humane, and practical than other forms of euthanasia when properly used by skilled personnel with well-maintained equipment. If the method is not accomplished correctly, animals may be injured and may have varying degrees of consciousness, resulting in pain and distress. In general, physical methods are recommended for use only after other acceptable means have been excluded; in sedated or unconscious animals when practical; and when scientifically or clinically justified. Consequently, the panel considers all physical methods, except microwave irradiation, conditionally acceptable. ----------------------------------------------------------- 1. Decapitation from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm: ...Decapitation is a technique that may induce rapid unconsciousness. ...It is rapidly accomplished. The handling and restraint required to perform this technique may be distressful.... Data suggest that electrical activity in the brain persists for 13-14 seconds following decapitation. ...Decapitation may be aesthetically displeasing to personnel performing or observing the technique. ---------------------------------------------------- a. Guillotine ----------------------------------------------------- b. Hanging To: alt.suicide.methods From: "John Jacob Jingleheimerschmutt" Subject: Re: Noose yes, what knot? Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:03:26 -0800 Strangulation or Cervical Dislocation? If you're going to step off a chair and strangle yourself to death (sort of quick): The knot goes behind your neck and should pull tighter as more pressure is applied. Loop one end and tie a simple knot with main and looped section of rope to make an eye, thread rope through eye, secure to something solid. Test the rope. Your unconscious body will thrash about as it dies. You may want to put something around the rope where it comes into contact with your neck to keep it from cutting. Pull rope tight around your neck and step off. If you're going to try to break your neck (quicker looking, but arguable whether it's a faster death): The knot should not pull tight, and be placed behind the ear. It needs to go at the side, and you'll need to fall 5-8 feet before it goes tight (according to your weight). Someone posted tables here based on weight. After only a few minutes' worth of web searching, here's a sight that details how to make a noose (Search: Hangman knot): Hangman's Noose Knot-Board http://huizen2.dds.nl/~erpprs/kne/noose.htm This site gives step-by-step instructions for execution hanging: Hanging Protocol (State of Delaware) http://www.theelectricchair.com/hanging_protocol.htm http://www.theelectricchair.com (This site also appears to have other interesting tidbits.) ----------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: jomac@earthlink.net (jomac) Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 12:24:44 GMT >>> >Does anybody here know for sure how long it >>> >would take using traditional hanging to >>> >reach unconciouness? (through asphyxiation). > > Check the alt.sex.* bondage groups (as a lurker). > Since some of them are into the near-death > asphyxiation/sex thing, they'd have tested the > limits more than ashers would have. > >>> The knot should be at the back of your head, >>> not the side. You can probably do more damage >>> to the brain stem that way. It controls stuff >>> like breathing. >> >>I thought it was more effective if the knot was >>at the side. That the neck would break more >>easily. > > The knot at the side is more effective when you're > out to snap your neck. If you're going for > strangulation instead of breaking the spinal cord, > I'm not sure it matters as much. If you're just > leaning into the noose, having it at the back may > make it easier to apply even pressure to the > windpipe and veins. Being at the back (for > gentle strangulation -- if there is such a thing), > wouldn't really cause more physical brain > stem damage. Depending on the knot you use, you > might actually have the least pressure at the knot > point. > > Spinal damage is the main issue in snappings > (long falls). Cutting off the oxygen supply to > the brain is the main issue in strangulations. > > I don't know if taking sedatives or muscle > relaxants significantly cut down on the time to > death for strangulations, but it might cut down > on the thrashing. Actually, what the British master hangmen did (after the long-drop method was adopted) was to place the knot at the corner of the jaw oriented so that as it tightened, it would travel under the the jaw, throwing the head back. They also used a rope with a massive metal ring to aid in throwing back the head. The American's used the hangman's knot to do the same thing: it was a heavy bulky knot which helped throw the condemned's head back. Additionally, it was a high friction knot, so the hangman could tighten it and go about the remainder of his business without worrying about the noose loostening and coming off. This knot is NOT good for effective strangulation precisely for that reason. If the neck is not broken, the hangman's knot can actually prolong strangulation because it does not tighten very effectively. Ending up with the knot behind the head throws the head forward and virtually guarantees the spine will not be broken unless the drop used is extremely long. The knot to the side is a little better. ----------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: wgoff1 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:56:16 -0400 I found this bit I hope it helps: A Guide To Hanging Yourself 14 stone (196 lbs.) 8 ft. 0 in. 13 1/2 stone (189 lbs.) 8 ft. 2 in. 13 stone (182 lbs.) 8 ft. 4 in. 12 1/2 stone (175 lbs.) 8 ft. 6 in. 12 stone (168 lbs.) 8 ft. 8 in. 11 1/2 stone (161 lbs.) 8 ft. 10 in. 11 stone (154 lbs.) 9 ft. 0 in. 10 1/2 stone (147 lbs.) 9 ft. 2 in. 10 stone (140 lbs.) 9 ft. 4 in. 9 1/2 stone (133 lbs.) 9 ft. 6 in. 9 stone (126 lbs.) 9 ft. 8 in. 8 1/2 stone (119 lbs.) 9 ft. 10 in. 8 stone (112 lbs.) 10 ft. 0 in. The above table shows weight and reccommended drop This is actually a quite important list. Why not give everyone a ten foot drop? Turns out that with too much of a drop, if you're too heavy, you decapitate yourself, which is both quite messy, and doesn't give the right impression. After all, you want to be found hanging there, with your suicide note neatly pinned to your chest, or perhaps tastefully left on the table beside you, and not with your body in one place and your head in another, with a few shards of flesh hanging from the rope. Also remember that this was for heavy hanging rope, and that thinner rope might not survive the snap at the end of the drop. In other words, to do yourself in with your belt, or zipcord, you will have to strangle yourself, and not break your neck. Another popular way to kill oneself is with impalement. In the past, falling on one's sword was a means of doing this, but these days, a good sword is so hard to find, so this method has fallen out of fashion. One of my grandmother's roomers did manage to do himself in this way, by sitting on an upright vacuum cleaner, and falling backwards on to it, but it was never settled as to whether or not this was an intentional suicide, or simply a very messy accident during a dangerous sexual practice. And do, please, let people know. This fellow was not found for three days, and it was quite difficult to get the smell and stains out so that the room could be let again. ------------------------------------------------------- anonymous: it's possible to "hang" with both your feet touching the ground. all that's necessary is pressure on the neck, cutting off the blood supply to the brain. you lose consciousness after about 10 seconds. this is _strangulation_, not suffocation. there are other ways to die by hanging, namely (1) fracture of the spine and (2) decapitation, but they're rare in suicide. ------------------------------------------------------ To: alt.suicide.methods From: "Anon" Subject: My first hanging attempt Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:58:53 -0500 (EST) This message was posted anonymously: Last night I was home alone, I took an electrical cord and went to the basement. I tied one end of the cord around my neck, and pulled the other over a beam in the ceiling. I stood on the arm of a couch, and pulled the cord until I was on my tiptoes. Then I stepped off. I held the cord tightly. I felt it tighten around my neck (and I hadn't even tied any kind of slip knot). I remember just hanging there, feeling lightheaded, but not suffering. No pain, just a little discomfort. After a few seconds, I tried to breathe. I was able to inhale with difficulty, I could hear my rasping breath. Then... nothing. I came to on the floor I was probably conscious for no more than ten seconds, if that long. I had banged my mouth, and cut my lip, but other than that, I was fine, though a little dizzy. Knowing that I will pass out so soon, I will be conscious for no more than ten seconds, next time I will tie tied the cord to the beam. ------------------------------------------------------ 2. Cervical Dislocation (Neck Dislocation/Breakage) from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm Cervical Dislocation (as hanging snapping neck) Cervical dislocation is a technique that may induce rapid unconsciousness. ...It is rapidly accomplished. ...Data suggest that electrical activity in the brain persists for 13 seconds following cervical dislocation. ------------------------------------------------------ 3. Electrocution 4. Hypothermia a. Snow b. Water ------------------------------------------------------ 6. Immolation To: alt.suicide.holiday From: Smithers Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 11:37:13 +1100 Self-immolation. Yup, that good ol' buddhist thingo they did to protest the Vietnam war. Haha... fat lot of good that did. But hey, get really loaded with, say, drambuie or similar liqueur style booze (easier on the burn), take some body numbing painkiller (difficult to procure, I admit - could be a stumbling block), a jerrycan of petrol and head to your local TV station, shopping centre, representative's office, kindergarten or wotever. Douse yourself with the juice, light up and PRESTO! Imminent death, plus making a statement (something obscure like, say, the situation in East Timor). Just make sure there's no do-gooders with fire extinguishers hanging around. But always ensure the Press are there. Preferably on a sunday, typically a slow news day. They'll love you for it. ------------------------------------------------------ 7. Exsanguination from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm Exsanguination can be used to ensure death subsequent to stunning, electrical stunning, or in otherwise unconscious animals. ...anxiety is associated with extreme hypovolemia.... a. Wrists To: alt.suicide.holiday From: "ZeroDegree@Cold.com" Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 22:27:38 -0000 bend your wrist towards you, see where the crease is? Go for there, one diagnal cut, as deep as you can make it, try a razor. Running a hot bath will increase blood flow to the area and bring the blood vessels/arteries closer to the skin makig them easier to cut.... --------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: "LIAM D YOUENS" Date: 15 Dec 1997 10:56:04 GMT The best way to do it is this: -get a very large bowl, full of ice water... lots of ice -put your arm in it for an hour( hurts at first ) -get a razor or sharp knife, exactor knife good -cut along the wrist where it meets the hand -then cut 45 degrees down across your wrist -then down center along your arm until it starts to hurt note: when I tried this, right before I cut..I dropped the knife and vomited ----------------------------------------------------------- b. Major Arteries/Veins To: alt.suicide.holiday From: Herry Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 03:59:38 +1100 ...if you wanna bleed to death there are are 2 routes to go. Inside each thigh. There are arteries there an inch thick - blood loss to death within minutes. If yer serious and you have the guts... One stab and splurt you won't believe. And no stopping it. Just my advice. Hardcore, but a quick, way to go. Read up yer med texts. ----------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: al255@yfn.ysu.edu (Lance Rodberg) Date: 20 Dec 1997 04:57:02 GMT Best target is the armpits or femoral arteries get a hollow tube with some sort of cutting edge on the surface. You can jam it into something major, and then bleed out real fucking good. Femoral is the best. Hard to get to, unless you have like a shotgun with slugs, or a sharp surface, but a Gray's anatomy book will help yer asses out.... ------------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: tagtraeumer Date: 26 Dec 1997 16:35:19 -0000 >Forget the wrists. Go for the artery around the blood >donating vein on the inside right of the left elbow or >inside left of right elbow. Have a few drinks (eases >pain and yuck factor), tie a rubber band or a hair >thingy tightly around your upper arm, take a razor >blade and just nick about 1/4-1/2 inch deep. I sort >of accidentally discovered this while cutting. Didn't >take long for one cup, two cups of blood to literally >pour out. I did this a few times. I tried the elbow thing about 8 years ago, stabbed with a knife rather deeply at the inside of my elbow, where the pulse beat is strongest and actually visible, and did believe to be able to slash the artery and bleed to death. Probably i missed the artery completely, but damaged my elbow joint, it hurts until now. And i didn't lose much blood as well. ------------------------------------------------------- 8. Weapons a. Explosives b. Guns AVMA: Gunshot ...[Gunshot]... should be performed by highly skilled personnel using a firearm appropriate for the situation. ...the firearm should be aimed so that the projectile enters the brain, causing instant unconsciousness. Unconsciousness is instantaneous if the projectile destroys most of the brain. It is aesthetically unpleasant. --------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: dr@ripco.com (David Richards) Date: 15 Aug 1997 14:52:49 GMT >where is the best place to aim to cause certain death? >I have heard just below the chin or in the mouth with >gun on an angle pointing to brain or the side of >the head... The intuitive answer is go for the eye socket, but just the thought is enough to make most people squirm... Any bullet "on an angle" or "the side of the head" is more likely than not to bounce off... >what kind of bullet is best? A big, heavy, fast one? Stay away from 22 rimfire, the only .22 that has any chance of effectiveness is a .223... but IMHO, if you want to save money and insure "certain death", find a good (used) double barreled 10 gauge... Great if you only have to handle the recoil once and don't have to worry about having a big black and yellow bruise across your shoulder for the next week (voice of experience on that one). Remember the rules (http://www.nra.org/rstar/rstargsr.html): Three Fundamental Rules For Safe Gun Handling 1. Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction. 2. Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot. 3. Always keep the gun unloaded until ready to use. When Using Or Storing A Gun, Always Follow These NRA Rules: Know your target and what is beyond. Be absolutely sure you have identified your target beyond any doubt. Equally important, be aware of the area beyond your target. This means observing your prospective area of fire before you shoot. Never fire in a direction in which there are people or any other potential for mishap. Think first. Shoot second. Be sure the gun is safe to operate. Just like other tools, guns need regular maintenance to remain operable. Regular cleaning and proper storage are a part of the gun's general upkeep. If there is any question concerning a gun's ability to function, a knowledgeable gunsmith should look at it. Know how to use the gun safely. Before handling a gun, learn how it operates. Know its basic parts, how to safely open and close the action and remove any ammunition from the gun or magazine. Remember, a gun's mechanical safety device is never foolproof. Nothing can ever replace safe gun handling. Use only the correct ammunition for your gun. Only BBs, pellets, cartridges or shells designed for a particular gun can be fired safely in that gun. Most guns have the ammunition type stamped on the barrel. Ammunition can be identified by information printed on the box and sometimes stamped on the cartridge. Do not shoot the gun unless you know you have the proper ammunition. Wear eye and ear protection as appropriate. Guns are loud and the noise can cause hearing damage. They can also emit debris and hot gas that could cause eye injury. For these reasons, shooting glasses and hearing protectors should be worn by shooters and spectators. Never use alcohol or drugs before or while shooting. Alcohol, as well as any other substance likely to impair normal mental or physical bodily functions, must not be used before or while handling or shooting guns. Be aware that certain types of guns and many shooting activities require additional safety precautions. -------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: dr@ripco.com (David Richards) Date: 9 Sep 1997 02:43:01 GMT The only way to position a _handgun_ to ensure death is to point it directly at a large group of police officers, preferably of a different skin color than yours. Otherwise, trade it in on a single or double barrel 12Ga shotgun, and spend the extra cash you get from the trade to buy a box of double ought buckshot shells and a cheap hacksaw. ------------------------------------------------------ To: alt.suicide.holiday From: wgoff1 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:50:08 -0400 The target is your brainstem and not your brain necessarily. Why? Because one can survive loss of cerebral cortex but usually with a deficit like a stroke. One can not survive loss of the brainstem which controls breathing, waking and cardiac function. The good news is that enough bleeding in the skull (as long as it remains enclosed) will compress the brain stem and squeeze it out at the bottom (uncal herniation) and this will kill you (brain death). Enough swelling in the brain (cerebral edema) will have the same effect (death). The latter 2 processes (bleeding and swelling) take time and are potentially reversible. The first process namely destruction of the brain stem is hopeless or successfull depending upon your perspective. Now it becomes a simple matter of neuroanatomy to select your spot and weapon. I will also base this on being a bad shot as well. If you can not control the weapon or pull away or something a grazing injury or worse is possible. This is often seen when the gun is placed in the mouth. Shotgun or not (and I believe bullets exist which perform like a shotgun shell), if you angle too high into the roof of your mouth you can blast through your sinuses and eyes or frontal lobe and survive but virtually destroying your face, vision or affect respectively. This is a horrid survival and not uncommon. Now if you aim too low, perhaps deep throating the barrel you will likely miss the brain altogether and if in the midline transect your spinal cord (which could be fatal without intervention) or if to the side various airway soft tissue damage. To sucessfully use your mouth as the entrance wound you must aim up toward the brainstem and hopefully blow the back of your skull off. This would be 100%. Once again given enough time and inattention any of these wounds would be fatal from bleeding, swelling, compression or subsequent infection. I vote no for the mouth myself. The classic temple shot, that is in the mid-skull at eye level is stupid. The most damaging brain structures you will hit are the frontal lobes. This is tantamount to a frontal lobotomy, but once again given enough time... I have heard of shots missing the brain altogether and taking out both eyes as well. I vote no for the temple. How about right in the middle of your forehead to between your eyes. This is better if you can hit the midline stuctures such as the midbrain and brain stem. I recalled a homeless person firing a nail gun in between his eyes with not effect. The nail missed everything and lodged in the middle of the brain, so midline brain could be ineffective. I vote probable no here too. So where? My first choice is behind or directly into one ear aiming across to the other. With a sure hand the vital brainstem will shread. You would not even hear the shot or have time to feel a thing. Likewise the barrel directed into either eye socket and aimed down will accomplish the task. The neuroanatomical idea is that these sites follow the respective cranial nerves (optic, auditory) into vital midline structures. I vote yes for this approach. You can ofcourse miss or pull away or just be lucky or unlucky once again depending on your perspective. A hand grenade in the mouth would be infalllible. One might also consider exploding bullets, etc (I profess a meager knowledge of guns and ammo.) -------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: s3036712@mpce.mq.edu.au (Powdered TOAST Man) Date: 25 Sep 1997 04:21:55 GMT For a shotgun, basically anywhere near your head should do the trick. I'd suggest in your open mouth, aiming to go out the top of your head. We've all heard the stories of dudes with revolvers shooting into their mouths and ending up piercing their neck, with comparitively little damage. For a shotgun, I'd suggest placing the "butt" of it on the ground, against a wall, then sit/kneel in front of it with the barrel in your mouth. This last part should avoid it kicking and you not "finishing the job". After the job's done, you'll be left with half a head (at best), and a LOT of mess around. A lot of people don't want this, so be warned. Your body will tend to fall backward rather than foward (because of the wall). ------------------------------------------------------ To: alt.suicide.holiday From: caj@urth.autarch.com (Craig A. Johnston) Date: 22 Dec 1997 15:46:56 -0600 You can generally find a youth model 12 gauge shotgun at your local sporting goods store for around $80. I saw one for $71. You only need to be 18. There is no waiting period. Buy 00 ("double-aught") buckshot shells for it and you're ready. You might want to securely duct-tape it to your head so it's in your mouth and there is no possibility of simply blowing part of your face off. I can't think of much that's more certain short of using a grenade for a pillow. You won't even hear the blast. If your arms are short, use your toe for the trigger. --------------------------------------------------- To: alt.satanism From: Kerry Delf Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 00:15:33 -0800 re explanations for why you want a gun 1. I enjoy shooting -- I've even recently begun shooting competitively, and it has been a wonderfully challenging experience, in addition to being a fun social time with other friendly, intelligent shooters. 2. I appreciate the aesthetic merits of firearms. Some are enjoyable as well-made machines; some are simply beautiful (take a look at the SVD Dragunov sniper for an example -- a friend of mine has one, and it's a gun to drool over). 3. I am a 5'6", 120 lb. woman who is often out alone at night (avoided when possible, but it's still fairly frequent), in an area where (stranger) rapes and attempted or completed sexual (and other) assaults are too frequent for comfort -- in what is not a "bad area," even. I have taken courses in unarmed self-defense, but my stopping power is MUCH more effective when I am in possession of a firearm. I *am* safer when armed, though if I were caught unarmed by an assailant (for example, after leaving a federal building, in which I cannot legally carry a firearm), I know enough unarmed defense to have perhaps a fighting chance to get away (though not /nearly/ as much of a chance as I would have if armed, and with a much higher likelihood of being injured in the process). ------------------------------------------------------ To: alt.suicide.holiday From: caj@urth.autarch.com (Craig A. Johnston) Date: 26 Dec 1997 19:47:37 -0600 Ok -- any mechanical engineers or gunsmiths in the house? A shotgun, stripped of the need to fire multiple rounds, of the need for accuracy, comfort, or anything else besides launching a handful of 00 buckshot at the base of your skull once, is an incredibly simple thing -- really just a pipe of sufficient strength and the right size and a firing mechanism, which need only strike the center of the shell one time with a modicum of force. Imagine: the 12-gauge, single shot, single use zip gun. Constructed from $20 worth of hardware that requires no ID to buy, you need only supply the shotgun shell. (which sadly, will require ID in the US, but only showing you are over 18, and with no waiting period applicable.) Wondering how cheap and simple-to-make such a thing could be... maybe I will pursue this idea. Hrm, preliminary idea -- A pipe of just the right size so that, as in the barrel of a gun, the plastic part of the shell will fit inside the pipe, but the metal lip on the shell prevents the shell from falling into the barrel, has a shell so affixed to it (and epoxied into place so it cannot fall out of the barrel, either) with a BB taped to the place the firing pin would strike on the metal end of the shell, and is placed inside another pipe just large enough so that the first pipe can freely move through the larger pipe. Now, the end of the large pipe can be held in one's mouth as one kneels on the floor over the device, and the small pipe is allowed to drop through the large pipe so that the shell with the BB taped to the firing point strikes the hard concrete floor while the other end of the small pipe is still inside the larger pipe. Doable? Ascii art attempt, if this is not clear. | | | | <--- inner pipe | | | | ||---|| || || || || <--- shell inside inner pipe ||___|| || || || || ---o--- <-- there's the lip if the metal part of the shell. ^--- there's the BB, taped to the point the firing pin would strike. Drop this through a larger pipe so the BB hits the ground while the small pipe is still partially in the large pipe, with your mouth around the top of the big pipe. Ideally one would just buy a shotgun, but not everyone is so fortunate as to be legally able to. ------------------------------------------------------ To: alc.suicide, From: holtor@wxs.nl (mori bundus) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 18:10:15 GMT > If you want to get a decent suicide, don't fire a > pistol into your head. > > If you use a high-powered cartridge, your skull will > probably explode, making a mess of the place chosen to > "do the deed". This will be an awful sight for your > family, friends, passers-by, etc. > > If you use a low-power round, such as a .22, you may > survive, but with a badly harmed brain. I thought that was precisely where helmets are made for, so put a helmet on your top and fire away............ ------------------------------------------------------ ii. Death-By-Police buy a cheap toy gun that looks real enough from a distance. get stopped by a police officer and, from a distance, get emotional and pull the weapon. refuse to put it down when they command it. take a firing stance and aim the toy. best to obscure your body except for your head when beginning the escapade. D. IMPACT 1. Devices a. Crushing Machines 2. Weights ------------ 3. Heights (Falling) a. Bridges To: alt.suicide.holiday From: the Chemist Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 01:03:31 +0000 re Bridges vs Buildings > At 150 meters there might not be much of a differance. > Although your body will be washed clean of blood your > head and trunk might be ruptured requiring your body > to be taken out of the water in pieces. better reasons: 1) lesser chance to hit anyone walking on the pavement. Friend of mine jumped onto someone. She died, die is now in jail for manslaughter 2) less junk on the pavement. remember all thos little children walking there and seeing your skull from the inside. Trauma's and stuff 3) no chance on falling on anything soft like bushes or trees. If there is something there, it's usually harder than water and called a boat. ----------------------------------------------------- b. Buildings To:boboroshi@satanservice.org (in IRC) From: parasite3@hotmail.com: Date: November 6, 1997 jump from radio towers; use carpet to get over barbed wire. c. Planes ---------------------------------------------------------- 4. Vehicles a. Trains To: soc.culture.japan,alt.suicide.holiday From: Charles M Richmond Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 09:27:52 -0400 >> Jumping in front of trains seems to be pretty >> reliable here. Over the span of just three >> months, between Tachikawa and Kichijoji on the >> Chuo line (a very small section of that line), >> we had 17 "jumpers" in 1995. >> >> In those cases the family must pay huge fines >> according to how long the trains are down for >> maintainance and clean-up after the suicide, so >> it punishes and shames the family quite >> effectively. It's not very Kevorkian. > > are you serious?? the families have to pay? > why? how are _they_ deemed responsible when > often its just society-at-large that pushes one > "over the edge"? i don't understand the > justification here... wow...families paying > for how long commuters are inconvenienced... > thats both hilarious and frightening. It is true and it has also been very effective in reducing the number of train jumpers. From the Japanese government standpoint, one 'jumper' during rush hour has an economic cost of millions. 100s/yr has a real impact. The point of the legislation was to try to control the method of choice more than it was to stop suicides or punish families. Even so when the head of the oil cleanup from the norhthern oil spill 'fell' in front of a train, it was reported as an accident. Maybe they did not fine his family. --------------------------------------------------- b. Trucks E. COMBINATION 1. impact/decapn (piano wire jump) ------------------------------------------------------ 2. poison/asphyx (pills and bag) From: boboroshi@satanservice.org the Hemlock Society (which supports the right of the terminally-ill to die -- the contact I spoke with said that they had few objections to general suicide support but are working on the terminally-ill rights first) says that the rubber band method may cause sufficient discomfort such that an alternative is recommended: placing a pillow on top of the front of the bag on one's chest. I am not aware of the failure rate of either method. I have heard stories of people who ended up getting their fingers under the rubber bands and thwarting their own attempt in part because of the discomfort of the method employed. ------------------------------------------------------- anonymous: I think bags alone will always result in labored-breathing, much like when underwater (say, with weights attached to ankles). it requires an iron will and a supreme display of self-control that overcomes autonomic self-rescue responses. this is why depressants are used in combination -- to overcome these responses and diffuse the pain of the breathing problems. ---------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: tagtraeumer >> So here is my improved method. >> First of all, I will take 340 mg of valium (Stesolid, >> so no pills, but rectioles) to lower the heartbeat >> and relax the muscles. >> >> Then I will enjoy about one and a half litre of Vodka >> (according to the post on lethal overdose I will need >> roundabout that). >> >> To finish it all off I will use the band and bag >> method. > >That combination is kinda difficult - you may find that >you'll be too out of it all of a sudden (in my case it >unexpectedly hit me - not sure what happened afterwards >and when people told me about it it didn't seem at all >familiar... I was unable to recognise anyone and had to >ask who people were every two minutes or so). Then >there is always the problem of holding it all down... >1,5l of vodka is fine, but the problem is drinking >it all! Not sure I could. Not without being violently >sick after the first .75 l anyway! The violent sickness probably begins hours later (when most of the alcohol hopefully has left the stomach...) but unfortunately the narcotic effect sets in very soon and makes it impossible to use bag and band properly. After taking the valium and drinking half the quantity you'll be half unconscious. I would feel much more secure if I could combine it with a situation that ensures death in any case, i.e. to drink myself silly in a leaking boat in a cold night is really a tempting idea to me. Another (stupid or not?) variant is to stand with the noose around your neck and instead of kicking the chair (on which you stand) off keep drinking until you collapse. ----------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: selfdeath@aol.com (Selfdeath) Date: 7 Aug 1997 09:30:13 GMT >> If I were to take enough sleeping pills and >> then put a plastic bag over my head while >> I'm drifting off to sleep, would the sleeping >> pills ensure that I wouldn't wake up once >> their isn't enough oxygen in the bag? I >> don't want to take enough sleeping pills to >> kill me, just enough so that I could sleep >> through the suffocation. Thanks. > >This is the exact method I tried - two problems >arose: first time round, I waited for about >twenty minutes for the sleepers (Temazepam) to >reach maximum effect, and accidentaly fell >asleep for four hours. I then topped them off >with a couple more, then tried the plastic bag, >but even though I was drowsy, I still managed >to panic and get up enough adrenaline to partly >rip the bag off my head (it was tied on with a >length of rope round the neck), whereupon I fell >unconscious and was discovered by a guy walking >his dog and taken to hospital. > >I believe the method's sound - just needs a >little reworking... It's nice to hear other's attempt at this particular method (my favorite method). Just today I saw someone on tv who died from this method (read "Suicide on LAPD show" for details). My problems were about the same as yours regarding the panic. Though drugged with diphenhydramine and vodka, I couldn't help but pull the rubber band from my neck.... ------------------------------------------------------ To: alt.suicide,alt.suicide.holiday,alt.suicide.finals From: shell_@usa.net Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 22:43:27 -0800 > > I have actually taken about 30 OTCs tablets before > > (not sure what kind). I fell asleep for a long time > > and then I woke up and found out I was starving so > > I ate some food and got right back to sleep. I had > > a weird sensation in my head that would make me > > feel sleepy so I slept a lot for the rest of the > > week or so. Generally I believe OTCs along won't work. > > My next attempt will pobably be OTCs + bag/band + > > alchohol. Hope this helps. > Thank you for the input! My plan is exactly OTCs + bag > and band + alchohol. > > I have the following question for you, and please make > your best guess according to your experience: is > deep-sleep induced by a high doesage of OTCs sufficient > to avoid panic reaction to the "bag and band" method? > > I fear that if the deep-sleep is not deep enough, my > reflexes might do something like ripping the bag open > and such. Believe it or not, I just tried OTCs + bag and band+ alchohol not very long ago and failed. OTCs is simply not strong enough and fast enough. I can not fell asleep for two reasons: the uncomfortableness caused by putting the bag on me, and the urge to vomit. It is not only when I rip the bag open and waited for the feeling of throwing up to go away did I fell asleep. I could have taken more dosage and drink more alchohol but I doubt I can hold it down all in my stomach that way. I have to disgard this method and go for others. ---------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: barbfreak@aol.com (BarbFreak) Date: 12 Jan 1998 19:38:04 GMT Well said.....OTCs don't work well with the bag because even though they are sedatives they aren't strong enough to suppress your response to CO2 buildup in the bag. Even benzodiazepines like halcion, restoril, valium etc don't really work well with the bag for the same reason... unless you take a massive dose accompanied by lots of booze. Benzos(and alcohol of course) also have a tendency to produce nausea in overdose. The meds that work best with the bag are the barbiturates (secobarbital, pentobarbital, phenobarbital, etc) because they do directly suppress your brain's response to CO2. They are also less likely to induce nausea/vomiting. ------------------------------------------------------ To: alt.suicide.holiday From: "Uncletom" Date: 18 Jul 1997 14:47:19 GMT Preferably to be carried out on a long, wide stretch of dirt road, with plenty of BIG trees in the area. Supplies: 500 feet of 3/4" rope Car, with at least a 286 6 banger, good tires. Known for excellent reliability, pick-up. Case of beer, various tranquilizers. 1. Do up! Load up and party. 2. Tie one end of the rope SECURLY to a HUGE tree. 3. Make a nice hangmans noose in the other end of the rope. 4. Get in the car, run the rope in, and buckle-up. IT'S THE LAW! Tighten down real tight on your straps now boys and girls for maximum effectiveness. 5. All buckled in nice and secure? Well, now just put that ol hangmans noose around your little neck, and pull the damn thing up tight. TIP: If you have a truck with a rear sliding window USE IT. 6. Ladies and gents start your motors! All set? GO LIKE HELL!!!! ---------------------------------------------------- 3. poison/asphyx/hypotherm (alcohol/ leaky boat in cold water) To: alt.suicide.holiday From: "Trevor (Not Trevor)" >: Any thoughts on the old trick of kicking the radio >: into the bathtub? Even with modern breaker boxes, >: will the current last long enough? > >I am not sure weither any current would actually go >through your body (heart) to kill you. Seen it in >movies, but don't know if it actually works. I've come across very few suicides that have succeeded this way, but have found more than a few notable stories of suicidal types who have tried this method and blown the fuses... Factory worker Peter Ditert was a German case of repeated serious attempts, last time I read he had notched up number 10 after being discovered after an OD on 60 unspecified sleeping pills. Other attempts include - rat poison (puked), gunshot to head (gun jammed), and the hair-drier in the bath method in question. It blew the fuse.... Then there's 46 year old ex-miner Alan Unwin from Sunderland, UK. He tried to kill himself 7 times after his wife left him, including the 'shake hands with Jesus' method - he wrapped himself in wire and jumped in the tub before plugging in. The fuse blew and he suffered minor electric shock. Most drastic, BTW, was his 6th attempt, where he broke a gas pipe in his bedroom and lay down, waiting for death. Fed up of waiting, he lit a match... this blew out all the windows, part of the roof and the gable end of his house. He was pulled from the wreckage with minor flash burns.... a year later he was a much more cheerful man and back on speaking terms with his estranged wife! Go figure... ------------------------------------------------------ F. MYTHS 1. air vein-injection (??) 2. body paint (Goldfinger) 3. pencils jammed up nose (highschool) 4. sucking out brain (through eyes, etc.) ------------------------------------------------------ 5. head in oven (gasphyxiation) To: alt.suicide.methods From: ppoint@gloryroad.net Subject: Re: Gas Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 17:42:48 -0500 > In my house we have a gas oven. > How lethal is this gas? > If I were to wait till everyone was asleep > and then channelled the gas as effeiciently > as I could into my lungs how long would it > take for me to die? Here is the info from Section III - Health Information on LP Gas, which is not natural gas. If you house has tanks, it is LP Gas. If there is no tank anywhere outside, it is most likely natural gas. INHALATION: Asphyxiant in high concentrations due to dillution of available oxygen. At excessive vapor concentrations, this product has anesthetic, asphyxiating properties and may cause sleepiness. At levels above 100,000ppm, propane is mildly irritating to the respiratory tract and may result in dizziness, headache, drowsiness, nausea, shortness of breath, muscular incoordination, excessive salivation, disorientation, vomiting, and excitation. In extreme cases, convulsions, unconsciousness and death may occur as a result of asphyxiation. Most home LP gas stoves have a gas regulator that will not open the gas valve unless the pilot light is lit. If the pilot is lit and gas begins flowing it automatically ignites. If the pilot is not lit, gas won't flow out. It is a safety catch-22 that reduces the possibility for a house filling with gas if the knob is turned on. Propane (LP gas) freezes when it is allowed to escape quickly and become a vapor (released from its tank). If you tried to re-route the gas line into yourself, you would be horribly burned by super-cold temperatures. Gas regulators allow it to escape slowly enough under a few pounds of pressure so that the jet doesn't ice up. At least this is my rudimentary knowledge and experience with it. I recommend abandoning that idea. =============================================== REFERENCES: To: alt.suicide.holiday From: eurasiaguy@aol.com (EurasiaGuy) Date: 18 Dec 1997 05:39:58 GMT re _Final Exit_, by Derek Humphrey: >Does anyone have or has anyone read this book? >If so, please help me. I really need to go on >a nice, warm, suicide holiday. I read it out of sheer curiosity...interesting book and a great intro for people looking for a way out. But most will find it disappointing because it tells you what you should take but doesn't give concrete advice on how to get it. It is also gives very inconsistent advice on dosages etc. But who said suicide is an exact science? I recommend "Departing Drugs"...a much better and more accurate book which is also based on ongoing research. You have to be a member of a Right to Die organization to get it though. ----------------------------------------------------- NOTES: References _Departing Drugs_, by Chris G. Docker and Cheryl K. Smith; write and join the Right to Die Society of Canada and purchase a book without waiting; less than $20, 60pgs. _Final Exit_, by Derek Humphrey, most major bookstores. _Uncle Fester's Silent Death_, published by Loompanics Unlimited for homebrew toxins and other methods. ------------------------------------------------------- from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm Precautions Concerning Use of Euthanatizing Agents in Animals Intended For Human or Animal Food In euthanasia of animals intended for human or animal food, agents that result in tissue residues cannot be used, unless they are approved by the US Food and Drug Administration. Carbon dioxide is the only chemical currently used in euthanasia of food animals (primarily swine) that does not lead to tissue residues. __________________________________________________________ Agents and methods of euthanasia by species Species: Non-human primates I. Acceptable (Refer to Table 2) Barbiturates II. Conditionally acceptable (Refer to Table 3) Inhalant anesthetics, CO, CO2, N2, Ar --------------------------------------------------------- EOF